DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Hi all, I rarely post here, but I was after a Euro related value for my completely non standard Targa as I am conciderring selling but have no idea what value to put on it!.
I know that the values may be hugely varied as the money put into it has little relevance to its actual value, as most revisions were done with Porsche parts but not period/model correct.
USA cars are generally more modified than UK/Euro cars it seems?
Previous owner had all mods done in Florida, USA about 7 years ago.
Car is a 1971 Targa LHD from the USA (currently French registered/in France).

Engine- which was recently resealed- 2.7 twin plugged using 964 twin dizzy's, Weber carbs with rain shields or standard airbox. Engine has 10.5 :1 C/R Cosworth Pistons on Carrera heads, Custom Crane Cams. S/S heat exchangers single out exhaust. (engine refurbed 7yrs ago)

Transmission- standard 901 dog leg type (Refurbed 7 yrs ago).

Oil cooler- Mocal cooler in front right wheel arch with aeroquipt s/s fittings and braided hose (since install I cannot get temps to run over 200 degrees in 80-90F days!)

Suspension- new bilstein shocks and believe new larger torsion bars installed (not confirmed)

Brakes- Polished Aluminium 'S' calipers front, Carrera rears with cross drilled rotors

Wheels- 16" by 6's and 7's polished rims and petals & black gloss paint rest, with Michelin Pilot sports 205 width all round.

A/C- rotorary compressor and dual condensers - one under tail lid and other full width underbelly - was working 110% - currently inop. (poss. loss of charge when engine re sealed?)

Single battery conversion.

Bodywork- was repainted 7 yrs ago but showing small amount of surface rust next to one headlight rim - but has not worsened in past 5 years due to garaged most of time- driven dry days.

Interior- custom grey leather dash and mix leather/vinyl door/ interior . Grey carpets, custom grey (non vinyl) targa top. Grey leather tombstone seats in perfect condition. Momo steering wheel. Upgraded (loud) horn.

Stereo + amp and MBQ quarts speakers (approx $3,000 worth)

Approx $40,000 - ish dollars were spent by PO at Butch Stokes Ft Lauderdale, FL in one huge refit project (have copies of receipts). Car has been driven approx 30K miles since refit. Engine was resealed about 500 miles ago due to main case leak. All components were inspected (and photographed) and reassembled (by Mougins Sport Auto- dedicated 911 garage) everything was in A1 condition and nothing needing refurbishing 'whilst in there'.
Mech. did not even want to replace clutch as it had plently of life!.
Engine was tuned, after build and now runs best since I have owned it (which is approx 5 yrs).

I will try and host some pics somewhere and post them soon.
As mentioned the car is not everyone's cup of tea- I would have done things differently, however it is generally a real head turner with RS performance!.

Many thanks for any comments-
Sorry if any of youy got bored/ fell asleep!
Regards
Ben




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I will try and uplink a pic now

now thats looks pretty nice to me.

Targas tend to be not quite so popular in the UK as they are in europe (proberly our awful weather).

ask the nice chaps in Denmark......here http://www.early911.dk/phpBB3/index.php

Hmm... not much happening here- should I try the for sale section?

its a difficult one to put a value on it I would say, in my view the engine/mechanical mods would make it desirable, but the interior being a more modern approach would knock down a point or two for me. Dunno £17-£20k

Thanks Nige, I know it is a difficult car to value as it is custom and would only have a limited market- it is either your cup of tea or not!.
Seems there are so few old 911's on the roads these days that they must be starting to increase in value?.
Regards
Ben

Hi Ben: I didn't see this down at Goodwood last year (or even the year before come to think of it) did I? I certainly remember being very taken with either this car, or one very, very, very similar .

As for values, for the last few years, and particularly over the last two or so, early 911 values have increased heavily. You'll need your crystal ball handy to see where the values are heading now. My (highly personal guess) is that they'll probably level off a bit this year, but given that the market for early cars seems to be widening (no doubt helped by the increasing number of specialists, the popularity of DDK and associated events, and a raised general awareness of pre-impacts), it's hard to see them falling back.

My (non-expert, non-dealer) feeling is that (if it is the car I think it is) then Nige's ballpark is probably a good kicking-off point.

I like this car a lot
It is where I am aiming for with my car.
Very nice
Tim

I'd have thought with 'hotrod' motor and considering the general condition of the car it would be upto £25K ?

It might not appeal to the originality buffers, but there will plenty of people this kind of modified car will appeal to.

Just look at the PS autoart targa backdate cars that follow a similar ethos but go for £60K

The rule of thumb I usually take is

1. Take a perfect and period correct example of your model in the market you wish to sell

2. Subtract the monies it would cost to bring your car back to standard: the interior back to period standard, or at least to a period correct "hot rod" look using the Mark Waring seats http://www.wwclassics.com/ or similar amd an RS lightweight carpet set and appbits doorcards etc

3. add a value for performance- added or safety modifications: twin plug engine+ suspension upgrades, + brake upgrades + oil cooler; documented history in a nice folder, brochures, a CD of the restoration and and and

A period correct standard LHD example of your car goes in Europe between 22000 and 35000 euros. You know how much the upgrades cost, and a ballpark to bring that interior back to a 1973 look is probably in the region of £1300.

My guess is that springtime in France/ Germany will provide a typical market but you will also have to deal with anoraks who sniff at details and will discount your car because of it.

Targa's do sell in the UK and a RHD 2.4S targa sold last summer in the early £20k-ties springs to mind to provide you with some comparables....

Arguably it is a more limited market which might attract buyers who can't justify spending more for a coupe because of a -typical- 10% price difference.

Good luck with the sale,


Bert

Promising input and some good points.
My local French mechanic values the car a lot lower than these quotes but it is not a reflection of the cars condition. It is more that he likes original cars or period correct copies.
He did give me a basic description of the engine components/condition and would gve a reference for the car should I need it, however it would be in French.

I bought this car originally as a temp. project to use and sell back to original owner when his finances improved (he went bankrupt)- Porsches can do that to you
But circumstances ended up with me having to ship the car back to the UK with my daily driver (Golf GTI)

I think there may be a better market fort the car in the UK based on-
1) the English are more serious car enthusiasts
2) it is easier for me to market in my mother tongue.
3) the pound is fairly strong at the moment
4) whereas it has been mentioned that Targas are not popular due to there not being many sunny days- I would be shocked to hear that enthusiast are driving their pre galv. cars on rainy days! - I certainly do not!- There is a lot to be said for summer time open top cruising with the safety of a built in roll bar!.

I may market the car on this site shortly but have one patient potential buyer in the UK who I have offered 1st stab at it once I descide on a price.

- The car was originally a USA car and has been in dry storage in the UK for 4 years and only back in regular use the last 2 years. - Whilst in storage it was used every other month to keep in good shape.
- So it was not at any meetings/rallys- unfortunately

Thanks again for the input
Rgds Ben

Car is now for sale in the Classifieds section
Thanks
Ben

I guess the final answer to my question of how much it is worth is 19,000Euros.
I have accepted an offer for the car and it is going to a good home of a 911 collector in S France.
I will continue to attend this board and the other boards and when the time is right will 'get back in the saddle' again!.
Thanks again for those who have helped.
Rgds Ben

twinpluggedtarga wrote:I guess the final answer to my question of how much it is worth is 19,000Euros.

well, is that £17000 - £3000 worth of body work on the sills and b posts?

My initial thought would be that this is a wee bit on the low side (19k euros= £14k).

But anyhow, obviously we haven't seen the car in the flesh.

Bert

I could have got more for her as she is a real head turner, however, she has gone to a good home and I would rather she went quickly and the sale be as painless as possible.
I have seen cars for sale for months and months and I do not have the stomach for tyre kickers.
I nearly sold her for 13K Euros on a local site in S France (prior to engine reseal), but was dealing with people trying to haggle at that price without even taking the effort to view the car or even pics of the car!.
So after a 2.5K Euro reseal I have not done so bad.
Also I bought her very reasonably in the USA and have had a lot of fun in her.
Regards
Ben