DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Got around to blasting the case with the degreaser at the weekend to try and ID the gearbox, drain the oil etc but now I'm not sure what I actually have!
Brief medical history:
The car was imported from S.A. in 1988 and I have an invoice from Barry Curtis dated december '88 for a full engine rebuild when the original crankcase, crankshaft, bearings, cylinders, pistons, valve guides, camshaft, distributor were all changed plus a load of other bits including gearbox mounts(cost £2297 back then!)
Then I have another invoice dated Feb 1994 from Roger Bray's where the original gearbox was exchanged for a secondhand unit (£1200)
Therefore non matching numbers car - but that doesnt bother me as the engine ID is period from 1958 as it should be, but would like to work out what the gearbox is
I know from its birth certificate it should have gearbox number 18760 in it but instead I have number 10575 (stamped along the bottom and near the starter motor opening on the bell housing). Trouble is I cant find any reference to this gearbox number in any of the books/references I have. It has dual mounts and the mushroom type breather
I've attached a couple of pics which aren't very clear, but the other numbers are:

2102 and 26 next to the VW stamp left of the transaxle


On this side looks like 113 301 102 next to the VW stamp right and below the mushroom, but it has really faded/corroded
On both sides of the case (under where the hoop attaches) is the number 870 other than that there are no other markings I can see

So, is this likely to be a 519 rather than the 644 it would have had - and if so how identified? - or is it a VW 'box? If so any ideas what/when from? or is it possible to mate the hockey stick/nose from a porsche unit to a VW???????

Either way I'm going to have to operate as I found these in the drain plug and I was starting to have those 'will it wont it' moments when shifting before taking it off the road


Cheers

James

Hope this helps,just taken one apart in a B recently check out pics in resto
http://www.stoddard.com/shop/images/pg18transID.JPG

Think that makes yours a 519!

They do clean up



Only used engine degreaser

The one Ive just done is a 741 from this code

I'm assuming you didn't have synchro on 1st? Looks to me like a split case 519 from a pre '56 A... could well be filled with beetle cogs and widgets as well. I've seen a couple of beetle-based splitcase boxes in early 356s in the past that didn't shift very well either

Thanks Nic - I saw this transmission diagram in the Stoddard catalogue but the number on mine is 10575 i.e. 5 digits. I assumed they would go from 1099 to 11001 so I couldnt work out where 10575 fitted into this nuumbering scheme, hence wondering if it was a VW unit (tell me I'm missing something here!)
I have seen an article in the 356 technical and restoration guide that describes the numbers in detail, but this case doesn't seem to have all the markings that it should
Also not sure what dates refer to Magnesium and which to Aluminium cases, as the nose from mine is definitely different to the rest of the case(suspect Al nose) hence my suspicion as to whether it was a butchered version of two - anyone know if the earlier boxes had this construction? It definitely makes cleaning it harder with degreaser
I wondered if the 26 referred to Feb 56 but not sure about the 2102 unless this is trying to describe the gear ratios

Cubist - 1st was always interesting but I have crash first and reverse in the MGA and the 356 always seemed a lot easier than that, so not sure if it was supposed to be crash or not.
If the case is a 519 I'll rebuild it as such but the number wouldnt suggest this if I read the stoddard catalogue diagram correctly - if -

I think there must be a mistake on the labelling on that diagram with the first twos numbers and they have missed a 1 off the front of it which would tie in with the next series of boxes

Would it not be better to upgrade to a later box ?

I have a 741 in my A and it runs very well

As you do not have the matching numbers gearbox it might be a good idea ?

Also a Pre - A box might be worth more to a Pre - A owner ???

Nic - thanks for your help - I think you might be right about that diagram, which is what confused me in the beginning, but I think its missing a 9 not a 1 i.e. 10999 then start at 11001, which would mean mine is one of the last 519 dual mounts probably from very late 1955 or early 1956 - which I am more inclined to believe given the stamp 26 - Feb '56?. Having just re-read the Technical and Restoration Guide (page 218) this time carefully, they have data up to 10538, which is a dual mount 519 with magnesium case and aluminium nose (like mine!) and says they changed sometime in 1956 to the aluminium case 644 (but the internals are 98% 519) which is what it would have had originally.
Jez - a later box would be good, but I reckon I'll rebuild it unless someone has number 18760 in a 1956 T1 and wants to do a swap!
Cheers

James

Silly me yeah 9 would be right leaving out a box on the numbering between the two runs.

Good luck with your quest

I've just swapped my 644 for a 741 - or rather we took the innards from the 741 and slipped them into the 644 casing. Works a treat and shifts smoother than it ever has done, well worth the greasy messing about. As Jez says - sell the 519 to 912uk or another 'vintage' owner

Just thought I'd share what I found when I opened the gearbox up at the weekend -

the flash doesnt help but after removing the intermediate plate - cast into the ends of the split case are the numbers 5 9 15 5 7 35 so I reckon it is definitely a type 591 gearbox
Also

shows a date stamp of 5-1-56 so my guess wasnt too far off!
Just that the external markings were not so obvious
Anyway, found out what the problem was with the 'will it wont it' shifting -

Think it needs a dentist luckily thats the only sign of any damage

Should be a relatively easy fix then

I had a few of those! Which one is it as i've got plenty of spares that aren't munched