4 to 5 stud whats needed

[dannyboy]

As it says i'm after finding out what and how i need to swap from 4 stud (2.0s rims) to five (fuchs). Trying to get a total cost on doing it excluding rims.

Cheers Dan

[Ian Gunney]

depends how much you want to spend.

you can go down the drilling the hubs route (def cheapest option)

or you could go down the 911 front suspension and buy a set of 914-6 rear flanges and 911 rear hubs - more expensive but ultimately the better option

the how to modify your 914-4 and 914-6 book tells you more..

Ian

[Pablo]

Have a butchers at this 5 stud conversion

When I done mine I bolted the 911 front end in there. (but if I was doing it again I would just buy a new set of studded disks for you own frontend from many of the Vdub shops).

For the rear I took the rear hubs and disks had them drilled out and put genuine studs into the hub and all was well.

[Gilbert '71 T]

I went for Eric Shea's stuff here,

http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/i ... 355582.htm

It's not the cheapest way but it certainly made things less painfull having to go around sourcing studs and people to do the drilling/pressing etc. And it makes the fronts dead simple, old discs off, new ones on

Then for the rear all you need are a pair of rear bearings (same as 911 from German & Swedish at £16.50 each) because you'll muller yours pulling the hubs, and your rear discs drilled to 5x130 pcd, should be around £50 for that?

Alternatively if you know a decent engineers then i'm sure it would work out cheaper.

Oh and don't forget you'll need a set of wheel nuts too

It's a fun job and 5-stud wheels totally transform the look of 914's

[dannyboy]

Thanks for the info. Got my heart set on filling out the arches now and i want to do it in one hit. It looks like i'll go the new discs then. The ones on the car aren't too special so i was going to replace them anyway. o/s rear wheel bearing is noisy and will need sorting so thats cool. I've got a set of goodridge lines and a full caliper rebuild kit so whilst everything is apart i may aswell do the lot.

So just to get it straight............

Buy some new front discs/hubs with studs in already and correct 5 x130 pattern. Machine 7 or simlar vw custom shop

Same with rears then get them changed to 5 x 130 and get them studded

Set of new wheel bearings and some wheel nuts

Some new pads

or

buy the complete kit from pmb. This roughly £225 + shipping and taxes

Am i far off?????????

Christ i said i wasn't going to do much to this car and already it's getting out of hand. Bonnet painted next week , dyno session , complete new/refurbed brakes , new rims and tyres , harness bar , harnesses , rev limiter , start button , bla bla bla.


Got to stop using this site , far to much inspiration and ideas for my liking


Cheers ( Savings rapidly dwindling) Dan

[Gilbert '71 T]

if you want to go down the studded front disc route you could get someone to the work for you, it might be cheaper than ordering the stuff from PMB. I did ask Machine7 and they didnt do anything for 914's at the time of me doing mine, they might do now though?

I have a brand new set of late front 914 discs in the garage if they'll be any use pm me an offer, to go 5 stud they will need to be drilled to 5x130 and studded (late 944 studs at 50mm long usually do the trick if i remember right) and you also need to have the centering ring machined down otherwise a 911 wheel wont fit.

I gladly loan you one of my studded front discs if you want to take it to an engineers with the above pair of discs so they can see exactly what needs to be done The car's resting at the mo so it's not like i'll be needing brakes for a while

For the rears you need to have both the hub and discs drilled to 5x130 and then have studs pressed into the hubs.

[Pablo]

If not mistaken the late beetle/type3 front disks are identical to the 914 so there shouldn't be a problem buying them off the shelf with studs already pressed in.

I will check the part numbers of the disks when I get home tonight to be sure tho.

[Pablo]

Right then, there actually Type 4 discs 411 407 075B for the 72- and take off the B for the pre 72. Im still convinced there is a similarity to off the shelf late Beetle parts, I just cant find the evidence at this mo to cross reference it all (and Ive have a few too many drinkies to be bothered) so go for the PMB setup to be on the safe side, it will save you machining the centre ring off anyways like Gilbert says.

[kevster]

sounds like you are sorted on the front. On the rears as Darren said you can get the hubs machined, I used 914-6 discs which i ordered from mittelmotor - they were quite reasonable, about £100 shipped i think.

I took my hubs to a local guy who only charged me about £50 to drill & fit the new studs and he also made up some spacers to build the metal up as when you spot face the hubs from the rear theres not much metal left.

If you are lucky when you take the hubs off if you are careful you wont destroy the bearings - i was lucky and we managed to save them as we levered out the hubs on both sides and they popped out without excessive force. If you need some bearings you can have mine and send them back if you save yours or you can have mine for £30 (new from gsf)

[Robster]

Hi chaps,

thought I would throw in my experience. I had drilled standard discs, and after a succession of cycles of nuts on and off, the studs started to pull out of the front discs. I certainly would recommend that you fit the type of stud with a flange on the back that are pressed through if you can.

So, I am now in the process of fitting the front strut uprights with brakes and mastercylinder from a 911. problems I have found - I had to pound the lower ball joint retaining pin(s) out which was a pain and they are ruined. This is normal - just buy a big hammer! Also I couldn't get toff he top nut the holds the strut on to the top rubber mount. I took the 3 allen key camber adjuster nuts off and then the whole assembly drops out under the wing. I then took the whole assembly to my local BMW specialist who had to use an air wrench to get them off!

I also have fitted a 19mm 911 mastercylinder. Note that if you have a US car, that you will need the version with the brake pressure warning light. U guessed it, I hadn't spotted this! I have fitted it anyway, but will discard the brake warning light (have to work out how to keep the handbrake warning light).

Summary:

U will need a big hammer.
U will need a proper ball joint seperator to get the ball joint out of the bottom of the suspension struts (s)
U may need to take your front suspension struts to a specialist to get the top nuts off.

hope that helps. All I need to do know is bleed the brakes - I'll keep you posted if their is any improvement (I Bl**dy hope so!)

total cost - £250 all in so far (but may go for turbo tie rods while I am at it)

kind regards
Robster

[kevster]

Also I couldn't get toff he top nut the holds the strut on to the top rubber mount.

I hear you on that one Robster - I bought a big pair of water pump pliers and got a mate to clamp the top of the shock in the wheel arch while I swung on the top nut and that did it but they are a pain as the whole assy turns. The main shaft is threaded so maybe there is a special tool for this job?

[Pablo]

I bought a big pair of water pump pliers and got a mate to clamp the top of the shock

Ditto

[davidppp]

A well-trodden path.

There is no doubt that the Right way is to do the 911 front end swop:

Bigger bearings, bigger stub axle much much bigger disc, and a good choice of pads at good prices.

The alumiunium alloy hub is actually designed for 5 studs and is a relaible and proven solid job..which is always in doubt with drilled 4-cyl discs..

Also slightly stiffer Torsion bars, and Bilsteins if you want them are the bigger type too..

Anyone looking at the car to buy will see the greater value in the 911 front end and you have some chance of seeing your money back.

The Choice is whether to buy the complete front end with all good componenets and just do a bolt-on, no strpping of anything except the calipers..which is literally a long one-day job for two blokes to complete..

Or do the whole lot, reconditioning eveything.

Thsi is more demanding of time expertise and kit..oxy acetylene is almost always needed to avoid damage..


I am not at all fond of drilled VW discs..I have seen/heard of two with serious problems..one studs came loose, and another cracked..

Part of the problem is that people fit hotter motors and the discs are simply not up to it..

The cost difference is trivial for the added safety...

Kind regards
David

[PMB Performance]

Thought I'd update this common question with a link. Hope that's acceptable. If not I can post the text here as well:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105728