Terrot MT1 Motorcycle restoration project

[smallspeed]

Lovely, and I bet it's pretty accurate too

[911hillclimber]

Yes, all depends on the quality of the cutting tool though.
I can cut 0.001" with a keen tool as the whole thing is rock solid.
The cross-slide has some backlash as does the main slide traverse, but once you get used to the controls things are great.
I just love the age, the design and that it is simply there and hardly takes up any space.

I had a beautiful Myford Super 7 at work which is like a '997' compared to a 73T, but this '73T of a lathe' is full of charm, but a bit like a 915 gearbox!
The chuck runs a bit eccentric, but you avoid removing the job until done.
Maybe of interest to any engineering type:
Check-out 'Round Bed Drummond'

http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummond/

[smallspeed]

I nearly brought a lathe of similar construction when I was looking for one, right up to when I went to see it and realised how big it was!! In the ebay advert you couldn't really tell, but it looked a garage friendly size (about the footprint of a dining room table) and the guy said he would help loading it into a van so I figured it was worth checking out

It consisted of two big cast ends, the one with the motor in it was around 5ft tall and about 3ft6 square footprint, the other end was about 2ftx3ft6 and about 4ft tall, with two tubular bars (solid ground bars) about 9" diameter each and about 4 ft long between the two! There was about 9-12" between them, allowing you to turn MONSTOROUS things because the bed (about 3x2x2 ft cast iron thing) was actually slung underneath the bars!..
The tool post was fitted to the bed but mounted on another pair of big bars about 6" diameter, which allowed the tool to be moved up and down.. There was another set of these bars the other side with a mounting plate on it, so you could attach the tool post either side, OR you could (assuming you could lift it) remove the tool post all together and fit a huge t-slot bed across the whole thing (oriented vertically and about 3x2ft by around 6" deep) allowing it to operate like a milling machine - you removed the chuck and fitted a milling head, then basically moved the part in/out and up/down on the bed

it was a wonderful thing, and fortunately a) it wasn't too far away, and b) the seller had a sense of humour - he had a right laugh at me when I saw it for the first time! when you were presented with this thing in real life it was about 30% bigger than you expected and about 10x heavier! I could have got it in my garage, but I think the floor would have collapsed and there wouldn't have been space for much else! he later explained he was planning to "help load it" with a 15ton CAT forklift he had around the back - I was able to sort out a few bits he needed for that so it wasn't a completely wasted trip


I actually have my grandfathers lathe in my garage at the moment (along with my Chinese lathe/mill thing) and need to do something with it really - its been sat doing nothing for 20yr, so needs a good strip down and rebuild - maybe a job for the summer! Could do with figuring out what it is first though, and had forgotten about that lathes site so will have a trudge through there and see if it pops up

TOTALLY off topic! Apologies..

[911hillclimber]

All interesting stuff!

Got a call from Castle Chrome that my plating was ready, so scooted there this morning and here we are.
Being very much a 'budget' bike there is almost zero chrome compared to my Honda, but still £100. Triple plated show quality so all good.
Typically, I found a part that I had forgotten needed chroming, but I think it is brass so will strip and polish (tool box lid locking screw)

This restoration is making a bit of a stir on the French Terrot web site that specialises in Terrot bikes, but I've had 2 x the number of hits on DDK!

[Barry]

Loving this thread! That chrome looks good value to me, and the previous TIG welding come to that.

Your Drummond looks fantastic . Such a nice thing.

My first lathe was a 1930's 'Ideal' which it wasn't: all the integrity of a Curly Wurly, although carefully bolting it down to a sturdy bed helped. It had a cross-slide feed with a right hand 'normal' thread for some reason, meaning the feed operated backwards. By normal standards you wound 'out' for 'in' and 'in' for 'out'. Clearly this was going to end in tears, so the first thing I made for it (and using the same lathe) was a left hand thread, square section cross-feed shaft with matching split phozzy bronze nut and matching steel tap. That seems a very long time ago now.

Next was a ML7, followed by Super7. Then a brand new all singing, all dancing Warco; absolute garbage, so much so I rejected it and had them remove it from my workshop. This was replaced with my longstanding Lorch BZ2 5" toolmakers machine of 1954. Wonderful thing, complete with flat-belt drive, but power feeds both ways, all original collets and change-wheels etc. A third the price of the Warco, but just so much more satisfying on every level. Only downsides are relatively small spindle bore and lack of a clutch.

That is now making way for a very, very early Colchester Chipmaster; the lathe I should have bought after the ML7 really, as it's everything you could ever need at that size. There's a plate on the end saying it was owned by the Atomic Research Establishment. Probably explains why the fluescent tubes in the workshop always glow. Anyway, will be a lovely accurate, well spec'ed British machine when finished, and will sister up nicely with my '50's Tom Senior milling machine. I love these period bits of kit.

Anyway, cracking thread and resto Graham, thank you .

[911hillclimber]

Thank you Barry! I had better pull my socks up now I know a Master Craftsman is watching.

As a 16 year old 1st of 5 years apprentice I did a year in the Training School which had everything good in it.
My favourite lathe was the Boxford, the miller was a Bridgeport the shaper was HUGE and scarily powerful and so on.
The Boxford (one of 3) were new so utterly fabulous. I recall winning the contest to cut the longest length of swarf in aluminium on it. It was a fun side to the theory of efficient cutting speeds and lubricant. Amazes me I did that at 16 years old.
God, I had a good apprenticeship!
It was in the 1st year I earned the nickname of 'Micrometer Eye' . I still use the tools I made in that year today.

After many years where my engineering job went from the Design Office to Customer / Technical interface and then to Director of Design I really missed the hands-on of these machines and the hotrods and cars over the years substituted for these losses. Before I went to 3 days and then early retirement 2 years ago I got closer to machinery which I found really good to heart and soul and had my own workshop at work.
In the small tool room were toolmaking quality lathes, one with clutch, collets etc, I never saw that lathe with a chuck on it. It was known as 'Merv's Lathe'. Mervyn Caddick is the most talented craftsman in the kind of work I did (locks and security) I have ever known, and you needed HIS permission to use the Hardinge lathe. What a beauty it was.

I had a Myford Super 7 and it was a mini version of Merv's lathe in my mind. Utter Joy to Use!

Myford bought up Drummond after the WWII and some parts are interchangeable.

My Drummonds hand feed to the slide operated opposite to intuition, screwing it clockwise retracts the slide!
Takes some getting used to. The reason is the feed screw runs inside the round bed and the slide is essentially a big 'nut' so screwing in the handle on the feed brings the slide to the tailstock.

To this little bike; my gasket paper has arrived to make the engine paper gaskets. It must be good stuff as it stinks! (and feels damp all the time)
So, trading lathe tools for single edged razor blades soon. Band-Aide plasters are by my side...

[911hillclimber]

Back to today!

Lousy day, so decided to tackle the flimsy gaskets needed for the engine, 4 of them. Can't do the cylinder head in copper yet as my ebay buy is late..
A pack of 5 different thickness paper sheets, all A4 in size and I used the 2 thinnest. The very thin one for the gasket between the crank case halves, and a slightly thicker one for the clutch cover, the gear change cover and the barrel/crankcase joint.
Cut the holes with a sharpened fuel pipe tube to give a nice 7mm hole and opened a few up to clear engine bolts and bearings etc.
Decided to leave the outside shape until the parts are all bolted tight then razor-blade the lot to match the casting shape closely.

Apart from the smell, all worked out, so I'm happy. Building up to re-assembly of the box and engine once I've blackened the screws.
I think this bike was not assembled with bright zinc plated fasteners (as my earlier posts), so with the weather getting warmer in the UK, time to do all the parts that need blacking, mainly nuts and bolts.

Are the castings on this bike natural or painted/plated?

[Ashley James]

Need to be careful with aluminum but us old codgers used to make gaskets by laying the material over the joint surface and using the ball end of a hammer to tap round the edges. Start by knocking in bolt/screw holes and inserting screws to locate the material.

Loctite 5699 is an incredibly good gasket cement, it can seal up to 1mm gaps FWIW.

[Barry]

Thank you Barry! I had better pull my socks up now I know a Master Craftsman is watching.

As a 16 year old 1st of 5 years apprentice I did a year in the Training School which had everything good in it.
My favourite lathe was the Boxford, the miller was a Bridgeport the shaper was HUGE and scarily powerful and so on.
The Boxford (one of 3) were new so utterly fabulous. I recall winning the contest to cut the longest length of swarf in aluminium on it. It was a fun side to the theory of efficient cutting speeds and lubricant. Amazes me I did that at 16 years old.
God, I had a good apprenticeship!
It was in the 1st year I earned the nickname of 'Micrometer Eye' . I still use the tools I made in that year today.

After many years where my engineering job went from the Design Office to Customer / Technical interface and then to Director of Design I really missed the hands-on of these machines and the hotrods and cars over the years substituted for these losses. Before I went to 3 days and then early retirement 2 years ago I got closer to machinery which I found really good to heart and soul and had my own workshop at work.
In the small tool room were toolmaking quality lathes, one with clutch, collets etc, I never saw that lathe with a chuck on it. It was known as 'Merv's Lathe'. Mervyn Caddick is the most talented craftsman in the kind of work I did (locks and security) I have ever known, and you needed HIS permission to use the Hardinge lathe. What a beauty it was.

I had a Myford Super 7 and it was a mini version of Merv's lathe in my mind. Utter Joy to Use!

Myford bought up Drummond after the WWII and some parts are interchangeable.

My Drummonds hand feed to the slide operated opposite to intuition, screwing it clockwise retracts the slide!
Takes some getting used to. The reason is the feed screw runs inside the round bed and the slide is essentially a big 'nut' so screwing in the handle on the feed brings the slide to the tailstock.

To this little bike; my gasket paper has arrived to make the engine paper gaskets. It must be good stuff as it stinks! (and feels damp all the time)
So, trading lathe tools for single edged razor blades soon. Band-Aide plasters are by my side...

I'm very much at the other end of the scale to you Graham, all the gear and (absolutely) no idea . Interesting that the Drummond's feed is also 'backwards'. I'd always assumed my Ideal had lost it's orginal cross-slide screw, but perhaps that's how it was from new. Having said that, it wasn't a square section thread, thinking about it, which can't have been right.

Looking forward to seeing the next stages pan out .

[911hillclimber]

Ashley, I was tempted to assemble the engine using Loctite 741 as on a 911 gasket free engine, but happy now with a dry assembly.
When it is all tight, I will use a sharp razor blade to shear the edges, using the metal edge to complete a scissor action to trim the paper edges to dead size.

[911hillclimber]

Progress has been slow/stopped as important life issues have been time consuming but good and the kitchen too is nearly done!

I want to paint the engine castings and clean things up in general so got my grit blasting cabinet out and murdered all the engine case parts clean.
In the process found the original copper head gasket ring still in the head which is a bonus as I feared having to make one 9if that was possible).

Once painted soon I can put it all back together using the pages from the workshop manuals on Terrot.Org, a mine of information!

[911hillclimber]

Kitchen now done and new car for Mrs Hillclimber, so time and Brownie-Points available to get going on the bike again.
I cleaned and painted the engine castings with Hammerite Smooth silver, a paint I used on my Honda to good effect, the cylinder head with silver engine enamel, bit bright but should be ok.
I grit blasted all the parts first to remove a lot of casting blemishes. These parts are gravity cast I think, the sharp neat Honda was pressure cast.

With everything now painted and cured I have re-assembled the 3 speed crash gearbox. The output sprocket was welded to it's shaft in the past and I've managed to restore the circlip grove and all is well. Tapped the crank back in and everything feels smooth.
Before I can fit the other case half the large headed slotted engine screws needed blacking. These fasteners (and other parts) were chemical blacked and not zinc plated for low cost.
I bought a kit to black the steel parts from Frost and did the first batch this afternoon.

First impressions are good! I hope tomorrow to put the engine back together (assuming the copper crush cylinder head gasket ring is good) and then time to put it in the frame.

The real build can then begin!

[smallspeed]

Looking good! I think Jan was a down month for us all

[911hillclimber]

Indeed, everyone seemed to stop.
The hill climb season kicks-off in late March locally and I have the Lola to finish, so once this engine is buttoned up that is next on the list, then back to the bike.
More days in the garage...
Bliss

Have another project in the shed..
Might do this one as an oily-rag as it is really good, just new tyres, tubes and an engine blow over. Oh, and new brakes!

[911hillclimber]

Had the day to myself, so put the engine back together. not without some problems but it is ok so far.
The crank does not rotate 'nicely' and despite slackening off the two case halves and trying to find a sweet spot to allow the crank to spin I reverted back to the factory position which uses a 5mm dowel to locate the two case halves. The rest went back together quite well, the kick start spring and shaft needed some help and the clutch basket fowled the kick start ratchet, but shimmed the lot and all seems well.
Oddly, the kick start shaft passes right through the bottom of the gearbox oil sump and it has NO oil seal just a close fitting bore in the casting and the shaft has two precision ground lands.
This must be a total loss system!
Biggest problem now is how to time the ignition.

I have the mark on the magneto cover and the pointer on the magneto so I assume I set the engine at TDC and lock the cover with the crank nut??
I assume the contact breaker gap to be 0.3mm?
Need to do some research! I might just use the Lambretta 2 stroke timing values and method...