phil Raby 911t for sale?

[Ferry Man]

I am surprised at the strength of feeling about the prices dealers are asking.

Please don't get upset. You don't have to buy from them. And - conversely - you don't have to fret for them if they get stuck with stock that won't sell.
They don't expect sympathy, nor do they deserve contempt.

These guys are trying to make a living and it isn't easy, even in the current boom times.
Many people relish the prospect of buying from a dealer and welcome the services that affords.
It's an easy way to purchase if you have sufficient funds.

I won't be buying from them but I see no problem with them asking whatever they want.
It's prudent good sense to try and get the most from every sale, good luck to 'em, they obviously know better than us what the market will pay for the product.
I think those prices are high for the calibre of stock presented but other folk may feel differently.

Try restoring a car and see what costs you incurr. Buying off the showroom floor and driving away with no grief and a set price seems quite appealing to someone currently engaged in a spiral of never ending restoration bills...

[sdelan]

Paul - everything you say is, of course fair comment. The market is what the market is - they'll either sell quickly if priced "right" (eg my 3.2 Carrera sold through RPM Technik in a week or so) or sit there for some time (eg those Old School (??) fellas trying to sell that Gulf Blue 3.0 RS rep for the last few years) - or maybe the prices will come down......??

I guess for me, and perhaps a few more on here, the shame is that I don't expect to ever be able to afford an early car again - I mean £35k and upwards for a T......

I guess this is why there appears to me to be a recent surge in interest in the '12s.

Buy hey - that's life I guess - but it is a shame if they (along with other classics) become the sole preserve of the wealthy!

Maybe we need a revolution!!

regards
Sean

[Bruce M]

That and a concern that the more the bubble is inflated the worse the collapse when (if!!) it pops. No one here would wish that fallout on a enthusiast who just bought a 100k 'T'.

[hot66]

Now, I'm not one who is obsessed with values of our cars as I prefer to just have fun driving / repariing these cars . I'm from the time when a pre-73 Porsche were bought as fun cars.

but, if we are on teh subject ...... last time I was speaking to the Porsche Classis restoration department, they reckoned one of their 'factory' rebuilds of a T would be min Euro120K ( although the E, S & RS fell into a similar ball park too ) Are we getting to a point where the cars are now worth their resto costs ?

I still think classic Porsche have been undervalued in relation to other marques .. ferrari, aston's etc etc ... I think classic Porsche are becoming more desirable as the years pass and this has the effect of lifting values from their previous undervalued position. This is all in relation to the other classics ... wether ferrari's , aston etc are overpriced ( and the market as a whole) is another matter.

Also bear in mind that these days people can throw £40K at a new Golf .... the new Range Rover can be specced well over £100K , and I saw a surprisingly large number of those on the roads in teh cotswolds the other week. ...

[964RS]

I don't think anyone is upset with what we see car dealers doing. Other than when they are taking a car and doubling it's price and leaving out key details or glossing over inaccuracies to justify this hyped price. That as a friend said to me this week 'is just not cricket', but as always buyer beware in anything of value. In these cases i do think an element of contempt is justified.

But they are in the business to make money and that's what they do, not sure how hard that is at present but not my problem.

If only you could buy off the showroom floor and drive away with no grief....that would be great. Sadly too often you find some dealers buying in this 'average' stock at 25-30k and selling it at £50-60k having done nothing....so you get the same issues that you would have had if you'd bought it privately.

Sean makes a valid point though....these cars are now getting priced out of the enthusiast market and into investor only territory and if they keep going a lot of enthusiasts will stop using them also as the risk to their value becomes too high. That will be a shame, but at least I'll now have a pension at the end of it maybe

[Mike]

I still think classic Porsche have been undervalued in relation to other marques .. ferrari, aston's etc etc ...

Sorry James but have to totally disagree with you there, I think you've forgotten how common they are!
It's the rarity of old cars that make them collectable and therefore valuable, and that's why high prices
for standard models are raising eyebrows at the moment considering how many there are around.

Porsche made 26,000 cars in the two year period 72/73, Ferrari made 3616 and Aston did 250 in 1973

[hot66]

That's why they're not AT Ferrari and Aston levels...... But there is the space between your average classic and the blue chip stuff that Porsche fills nicely with little else to compare.. .. As I said, I think they've been undervalued in the past ( only a couple of years ago an mga was similar price to say a 2.4e (£15k-£20k))

Of course , personally I think Astons are way over priced

[neilbardsley]

Porsche made 26,000 cars in the two year period 72/73, Ferrari made 3616 and Aston did 250 in 1973

Rather well put!

[dogbower]

Now, I'm not one who is obsessed with values of our cars as I prefer to just have fun driving / repariing these cars . I'm from the time when a pre-73 Porsche were bought as fun cars.

but, if we are on teh subject ...... last time I was speaking to the Porsche Classis restoration department, they reckoned one of their 'factory' rebuilds of a T would be min Euro120K ( although the E, S & RS fell into a similar ball park too ) Are we getting to a point where the cars are now worth their resto costs ?

I count myself lucky in buying 5 years ago, when prices were lower and the exchange rate was good. Does the fact that I have made money matter? No because I am not selling, and so havnt made a cent.
I do think its sad that people like me couldnt now afford one of these cars, and those that can will not use them as intended, instead stash them away because it might affect their investment if used
Also the value appears to be in standard cars, possibly not the best news to a maverick forum.
When my car gets some attention, it will be painted any colour I fancy, the interior will be suited to my use, etc etc.
If I had paid 40 -50 K for it, would I be thinking along the same lines?

I liked the Phil Raby car, I dont know enough to worry about the wrong bits, loved the colour, and 2 engines, whats not to like. Yes poorly presented by the agent, but thought it would fit right in on DDK and was suprised by some of the comments.

Also why does it cost so much to restore an early 911, yes the parts may be a bit expensive, but its still just a bit of metalwork, paint, and rebuild some oily bits.
How did people justify restoring them when the car prices were more reasonable?
Or have the restoration prices risen in line with the hike in resale values?

Phew must be my longest post, almost a rant.

[Timo]

How did people justify restoring them when the car prices were more reasonable?

There were more people who weren't afraid to get their hands dirty back then Resto costs estimates these days seem to be based on cheque book restos.

Just my 2 cents