8000 rpm/300 bhp 3.2 rebuild

[911hillclimber]

Maybe this will promote a few thoughts.
I bought the system from Clewett based on it being simple, no computers to sort it, and the kit was tailored for the 3.2 twin spark, and the $ price was 1500, or £1500 landed, about 1/2 the price of an ECU etc and all it's overkill for this simple engine and computers involved.

I also knew 2 people who have the system on a 6 plug 911 and they were happy, so all good.

It went downhill from the start, a 4 week delay in shipping, an increase in shipping price to about £200 for express delivery and 4 days in the UK for the shipper to clear customs and deliver.

The product looked great out of the box and all custom tailored parts were really nice.
The string of emails to Richard Clewett about installation, at one point about 1 a day where responded to quickly (in hours) and I sent lots of pictures.
It ramped up when the XDi lights did not work and the request for why there is a red light was not answered several times.

At every step, it was something I had done was the reason it did not work and culminated in I had damaged the XDi by having high voltage wired close to the crank sensor wire which has damaged the XDi circuit. Clewett is the principle trouble shooter for Electromotive, the supplier/designer.

£380 later I had my tested XDi back and a new Hall crank sensor.

I advised Clewett and Electromotive the engine started and asked why the kit is not provided with the Hall sensor instead of the 'sensitive' VR sensor.

Clewett never answered (first time ever) and Electromotive said they were happy and to have a Nice Day.

I ran the rebuild of this engine on 5 forums, 3 Porsche focused, one hillclimb focused and one car focused.
Nobody has run this kit on a twin plug, most had had no issues with 6 plugs, one had a duff XDi and one had a result with the Hall sensor. In all not many responded to my calls for help, esp on Pelican.

The responses with Electromotive were very protracted as the designer, tester, techie only worked 1 day a week. They also had stopped repairing units, but Clewett pulled some strings (30 years their customer). If he had not done this, I would be no further forward, they sell a product and refuse to back it up unless pushed.

The total cost to me has been close to £2500 and 4 weeks lost re-wiring the engine, the car, and waiting for parts/services, and considerable frustration.
If Clewett had been less responsive I would now be after my money back and will have lost the hillclimb season probably and be further out of pocket.

I had never done this kind of thing before, was partially ignorant of the sensitive areas of proximity of parts, but had skills in wiring and getting the right wire in the right place.

The whole content of this engine has left a very sour taste, and I will never do anything like it again as a result.

Whether that is right or wrong is irrelevant, it is my take on the whole experience.

As a supplier of a tailored kit, I feel Clewett should have been better and supplied the Hall sensor at least in the first place. The red light was never explained, but led to the XDi being sent back at my cost both ways, and the $149 Hall sensor tacked on too.

I believe the XDi was faulty and cannot prove it.

Maybe I am a typical customer, enthusiastic, only one eye open, and wanting it all to work. Clewett must have seen lots like me over the 30 years.

An experience over and done with.

[Nine One One]

You bit the bullet on this one when you went with the supplier you did. Some of which was based on cost. Earlier on in the forum, costs seem to be the main challenge as to whether you were going to do this conversion or not.
Having had the problems you had, lots here tried to assist, but as you say, you were getting a system to work on a twin plug which others have not apparently done before, with the same system. Is there a reason for this?

There were other options available in the UK but you discounted these on the basis of cost. Trying to deal with a supplier in the USA was never going to be easy, especially as Clewitt just seem to sell something designed and manufactured by another.(Electromotive)

I think you perseverance has been outstanding. However Clewett and Electomotive must have had customers in the past that have wrongly installed or wired the system, and you were probably treated in the same vain by them. Matters are not helped by the distances involved, taxes, import duty, all of which have caused delays.

It is all done now, others will learn from it.

My concern now would be keeping the unit dry, and the reliability, if as you say Electromotive do not repair these anymore.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[911hillclimber]

Indeed, cost was and is a big consideration.
The XDi is designed for twin plug, and 6 plug, and 4 plug, and 2 and rotary engines and even 2 stroke!

To find a UK ecu like DTA etc costs £1100 plus vat, then the looms, then the trigger wheel and the crank sensor mount and finally the coils.
Twin plug engines are rare so you have to go top of the range to find it.

Irritatingly, repeatedly revolving the engine on the stand had torn my right. Shoulder tendons, rotated cuff as they say and I haceacute pain in my left hand, so will Miss probably the first 3 hills this year....

[Hugo 356]

Any idea who builds Alfaholics twin plug ignition system? Appreciate it's mapped for 4 cylinder but the cost seems more reasonable than you quote for ECU @ £1,395 +VAT. Could just be Twin Spark volumes are enough to get economies. Maybe resto-mods aren't all bad...

https://www.alfaholics.com/race-parts/1 ... win-spark/

[911hillclimber]

Looks like an Emerald ecu.
4 pot ecu's are far cheaper, and many will also run 12 plugs so could be set for twin plug 6's.

The few UK suppliers I approached in case Clewett failed all stalled when you get to twin plug 6's; DTA was the most positive. The twin plug usually need 6 coils and these are not so easy to locate in the UK.
Coil-on-plug is the real answer but would not fit my 3.2 in the chassis. Taking the engine almost out to remove the COP unit is a bit silly, but at about £50 each = £600, about the same for 2 x 3 coil modules.

Which ever way you weave the threads it come to about the same, but being ignition only the XDi is cheaper and simpler.

[neilbardsley]

Any idea who builds Alfaholics twin plug ignition system? Appreciate it's mapped for 4 cylinder but the cost seems more reasonable than you quote for ECU @ £1,395 +VAT. Could just be Twin Spark volumes are enough to get economies. Maybe resto-mods aren't all bad...

https://www.alfaholics.com/race-parts/1 ... win-spark/

Tempted Hugo?

Graham when is Ben RRing the engine

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[Hugo 356]

Tempted Hugo?

Just wondered (too late) if there was an Alfa route given they have mass-produced twin plug. Living my motorsport dreams vicariously through DDK

Without being able to comment on the technicalities Graham, it feels to me like you have made the right decisions given the objective but have had to travel across some pretty rough ground to get there. The antidote; a soundtrack of twin-plug flat 6 echoing off the hills

[911hillclimber]

Hope you are right!

RR is due 20 April, but close to cancelling the Prescott meeting the weekend after due to bad shouklder. going to give it to end of the week.
Problem will be getting out of the car!

[neilbardsley]

I can recommend someone for your shoulder. Claire at Heartlands physio in Daventry really helped me post my accident but too far for you to travel!

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[Jonny Hart]

Any idea who builds Alfaholics twin plug ignition system? Appreciate it's mapped for 4 cylinder but the cost seems more reasonable than you quote for ECU @ £1,395 +VAT. Could just be Twin Spark volumes are enough to get economies. Maybe resto-mods aren't all bad...

https://www.alfaholics.com/race-parts/1 ... win-spark/

We don't make that system but Max Banks runs two of our CDI+ boxes on his twin plug race car. Not that CDI makes more power than inductive or anything..

[911hillclimber]

BIG DAY today for me and the Lola, morning at the rolling road, BHP Performance, very local to me which is nice for a change.

Strapped the car down on the rollers and warmed it up. First time Ben had seen the Clewett ignition system, but no probs, he just thought it strange...

Broke the engine in for 20 mins up and down the rpm in 2nd and 4th to load it all up and then set too setting the advance positions, tick over, 3000 and 8000 rpm, the latter somewhat academic!

Mid way through the engine died suddenly. Loss of power to the ECU, blown 7A fuse, so 10A fitted (max current draw is 10A)
Got going again and did a few runs and a few discussions and ran the engine to peak power.

At this point we hit 295.6 bhp @ 6776 rpm, 243.2 Lbft @5066 rpm.

(transmission losses are 35 bhp)

Engine sounded great, good oil pressure and 100 deg C.

Talked about where more could be gained, filters (oiled KN fitted) and maybe carb chokes (38mm in 50mm carbs)

We decided to leave it there, the curves are great, very smooth and it sounds like it could go much further.
I expected/hoped for a good 300/320, 100 bhp /litre would have been great.

Engine still tight, and we didn't want to push the timing further but did try on deg less and lost 5 bhp, so we could be very close.

Needed to add fuel at 6K so re-jetted the PMO's and that helped.

Very happy with this, smooth engine, lots of torque and no peaks or flats.

Quick little video here, try opening the sound up.
Sounded ballistic in the chamber!

https://youtu.be/Btr1ATBrrLc

[neilbardsley]

Has Ben moved to a new place? The engine sounds very smooth. Aren't you tempted to push the timing a degree or so?

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[Bootsy]

That sounds like a great result!

[KS]

Great! Once it's loosened up, you'll be over 300 easily...

[Hugo 356]

At this point we hit 295.6 bhp @ 6776 rpm, 243.2 Lbft @5066 rpm.

(transmission losses are 35 bhp)

Is that 295 at the wheels or the flywheel? I think this is a concert I need to hear live!