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Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:38 am
by neilbardsley
Explain this bit to an engine numpty. Why do you say "8,500rpm Scat knife-edge crank"? I thought that the rods were the limiting factor in an engine reving high? While aside from the high tempatures you will be generating?

I recently order a book from Leonard Turnbeaugh and he included his price list just incase but said that Andy was his agent in the uk :)

Actually I may of answered my own question from their web site!

"These are the strongest crankshafts ever made for the 365/912 Porsche engines. Made from a British aerospace steel similar to the 4340 steel made in the United States, this material will not crack or break ever at 9,000 rpm! This steel is used by COSWORTH for its Formula 1 engines which turn to 18,000 rpm every shift!"

In summary the steel was made here, imported to the US, turned into a crank and exported back to you?

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:42 am
by one-two
I do hope you are joking Mr Wright! Best wishes, Robert

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:56 pm
by steve wright
Robert I thought about leaving it to next week before responding but couldn't do that to you. Yes, I'm joking! Are you planning to have the pre-A out this season? Excellent news if so, but I will need to get some driving training from you so I can drift my car through the bends like you do without "running out of talent" as they say :)

Neil, like all these things, you keep chasing the weakest link. The crank we've bought is hard to beat: a 9,000rpm limit, light, counterweighted, and new. And knife-edged to reduce oil churn and aeration. Arrow will make me a crank for 3,000 pounds - this is the same outfit that makes them for F1 engines and it won't be any better, trust me Ian has been down that road already. I seem to recall that Scat used to make all of Porsches cranks. Not sure if that is an old wives tail or real, but they do make a lot of race cranks for a lot of people.

The con rods are Carrillo's. other than Titanium Jet rods (which aren't legal anyway as they're a different material from original) this is the best rod your money can buy - the VW boys are spinning these things to 13,000rpm in some engines with turbos creating so much boost it would make your eyes water, so we've nothing to worry about in the 356!

The valve train will be the limiting factor for engine speed, especially the rockers, although Ian has gone to a lot of trouble to lighten the valve train and hence allow lighter springs, which in turn means less stress on the rockers and valves, etc, etc. it might still go bang, but you've got to continually push the development effort.

Heat is no issue Neil. After a race you can put your hand on the engine and it's cool. The temp rarely gets above 85 Celsius. We've ditched the oil cooler from the fan shroud - it's not helping to have a big black thing full of hot oil getting in the way of number 3 cylinder and radiating heat into the engine bay, which then just heats up the air going into the carb, which heats the motor up a little bit more, which heats the oil cooler a bit more, etc, etc. We've got just the oil cooler in the front wing, and everything built just right. Nothing like an engineer turned engine builder to screw it together right.

Cheers,
Steve

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:10 am
by john ruston
The engine must be driveable and torque is as important as top end power.

The first / second gearing is important and a lot depends in what series the car is used for.

FISCAR which is the best one for beginners uses standing starts whilst in Pre63 ,Woodcote and Peter Auto is rolling.

Le Mans will be interesting as I would think the wrong gearing will make 5 secs a lap difference.

Problem is that Le Mans requires a set up solely for that circuit and is not suitable for any other.

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:05 am
by neilbardsley
john ruston wrote:The engine must be driveable and torque is as important as top end power.

The first / second gearing is important and a lot depends in what series the car is used for.

FISCAR which is the best one for beginners uses standing starts whilst in Pre63 ,Woodcote and Peter Auto is rolling.

Le Mans will be interesting as I would think the wrong gearing will make 5 secs a lap difference.

Problem is that Le Mans requires a set up solely for that circuit and is not suitable for any other.
Do you mean longer gears John? What else will be unique for racing at Le Mans? I'm surprised that any of our little cars race well there. It seems to be a circuit made for higher displacement engines with with good aerodynamics?

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:25 pm
by john ruston
Longer gears within those permitted .

As a major part of Porsche history from the early days is based on Le Mans seems an ideal place to race historic cars.

The 356's are very competitive in the handicap and have won handicap and team prizes since the inception of the LMC in 2002.

They will lap in 5 40's all being well which makes it interesting in Grids 2 and 3. With a top speed in the 130+mph.bracket.

Robert Barrie , the Stephens gang, Tom Pead, Geoff Moyes ,Richard Clark and even Andrew Prill will all be in 356's from UK and there are six or seven others.

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:15 pm
by steve wright
Well what a race weekend! Glorious weather, sublime cars, some great drivers, and racing like no other were a potent cocktail for the fourth running of the Donington Historic Festival. 29 entrants for the pre-63 GT race, from a Ferrari 250 SWB and two Aston Martin DB4GT's to a gaggle of Lotus Elite's and E Type's, to more eclectic racers such as a Jensen 541, Turner Climax, Ginetta G4, to a lone 356, we made up a magnificent grid! We we're looking forward to racing against other 356's but none showed this year. Our times would've put us in the mix, so it was a shame no-one else came out to play.

We qualified second to last, in front of an Elite, with a grandstand view of the rolling start. Being outgunned by cars half your weight or twice as much horsepower is no shame (anyway racer excuses over!) as we watched the start unfold. It was only our second time out at Donington, the first being the season opener last March when it snowed ( :shock: ) so we had no idea what to expect. It's a wonderful, joyous circuit in an old car. We had spent the winter developing the suspension and brakes and rebuilding the motor after Goodwood, so with only a few sessions last Thursday at Silverstone we hadn't got a lot of miles on the motor or much experience of the circuit.

After being caught out a few times with rolling starts, I knew you were basically racing from the moment you leave the pit lane, except the pace car held everyone up to bunch us for the start as we came up to the start/finish line. I almost ran up the rear of the ex-Le Mans 2.5 litre Aston Martin DB2 (the only other drum braked car in the race), not for the first time! A good start and an eager feeling car saw us scream into the first corner (Redgate) three abreast. Barrelling down the Craner Curves, I realised I had better brakes than the DB2 and another Elite in front of me (either that or I was just feeling a bit braver!) and I braked later into the Old Hairpin, getting them both. A storming run up the hill and we're making up places! A DB4GT ploughs door-deep into the gravel and the safety car comes out while it's dug out (literally) by the marshals… before it returns to the race and we get down to some proper racing.

And I do mean proper racing - I had one of the best races of my life, with a full 30 minute ding dong of a race with the DB2. He would overhaul me on the straights, I'd get him through the corners. He'd barrel past me on the main straight, keeping a mid-track position to stop me sneaking up the inside, I'd take a wider line and then drift round Redgate on a different slip angle from him, carrying more speed in, before racing away down Craner Curves, which I realised could be taken in fourth, flat out, if you had taken your brave pill in the morning! He'd then close the gap up the hill, before powering away on the straight after Coppice, before the chicane, and then we would repeat it all over again. At times I wondered how we didn't touch. The commentator picked up on our battle, because even though we were at the rear of the field, you couldn't put a sliver of engineers blue paper between us at times. I just prayed sometimes that the slip angles of our drifting cars wouldn't coincide, there being nothing I could do about altering my line, and I think him, his. At one point up the hill I was so close behind him I could see the whites of his eyes in the rear view mirror. If he'd lifted or the car coughed I'd have run into the back of the lovely ally rear of his car! We traded places throughout the race, often just inches apart.

An hour is a long time to race though, especially in these old cars, so there were always going to be casualties. Another Aston DB4GT loses a front wheel exiting the Old Hairpin (bet that surprised him!) while a number of cars crawl into the pits with various states of mechanical carnage. An E-Type rams the wall after the chicane, unfortunately burying itself in the entry to the pit lane. Someone blows up and then trails oil or some fluid all round the racing line from the top of the hill all the way round to the pits, making a couple of corners "interesting". And still we race on. I could tell after Ian had taken over that we were beginning to exploit the 356's main quality - reliability. And the car felt strong: the brake pedal was consistent, the handling predictable and exploitable, the engine un-burstable. In fact I found myself wishing for more power which is always a sign of a good chassis. Ian posts our fastest lap three from the chequered flag, testimony to a car that will run long and hard.

A host of dramas befall other front-running cars, including a stop-go penalty for the race leader and his main challenger, which only adds to the race drama. And by the time the chequered flag falls we had climbed eight places to 21st. Just half a lap behind the DB2 - a late spin by Ian, and a slower than planned pitstop (held because of a dawdling E-Type) meant we came within a whisker of winning the drum brake class in pre-63 GT on our first outing. The owner of the DB2 found me out after the race: I expected he was going to shout at me for such close racing. Instead he breaks into a smile and shakes my hand: best race he's had in many years. We both congratulate each other on finishing up the order in out-classed cars, and agree that proper men race drum brake cars.

What a weekend. Bring on the race season. Next outing HSCC International and FISCAR at Silverstone in two weeks. Cheers, Steve

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:39 pm
by one-two
You and Ian did a great job - it was good fun just to watch. See you at Silverstone if not before. Best wishes, Robert

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:03 pm
by sladey
Brilliant - thanks for the write up - fascinating reading

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:52 pm
by DustyM
Brilliant, very jealous...

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:41 am
by neilbardsley
Nice result Steve. We will try to come and watch at Silverstone. What day and time is your race on?

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:21 pm
by steve wright
Neil, we're next racing at Silverstone on May 17, in two races: HSCC's Guards Trophy GT race and Fiscar's GT race (Fifties Sports Car Racing Club). First practice is at 10.40am and last race 4pm so we're racing pretty much all day. Would be good to see you Neil (and anyone else for that matter!). Because we're running two races I have 10 tickets, 6 spare. If anyone wants to join us feel free. PM me for a ticket.

And breaking news! Ian was reviewing our lap times (http://dev.mstworld.tv/Results/getPDF?e ... series=hsc) and realised a mistake was made with the lap timing, with a lap count being missed! It clearly shows on page 2 of 7 - Car 36 Wright/Clark lap 25 - 3:19.842 which is exactly twice the typically lap time (1.40). I appealed to the HSCC yesterday but the race classification is official and can't be contested after the Clerk of the Course signs off the classification 30 minutes after the race. Another learning for us, but it does mean we actually beat the Aston Martin DB2 and so should've won the Fastest Drum Brake class as we finished a clear 7 seconds in front of them. We'll just have to beat them at the Silverstone Classic in July….

A few photos of the weekend, with credits to GT Porsche magazine and Matthew Barrington.

Donington is a lovely paddock:
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Feeling slightly like a celebrity:
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I think the first corner goes that way...
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In the thick of it from the start, with the pesky ex-Le Mans Aston Martin on my tail...
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Ian at speed. Notice how the car is riding slightly higher due to aerodynamic lift. Must drop the car another half an inch to counteract this….
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Pit stop and driver change. Mr B Carter supervising the pitstop:
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Damned Aston again. Notice the fly yellow 250 SWB about to overtake us both...
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Great front-on action shot of Ian. Unusual to get this sort of shot, well done Matthew.
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And the money shot, chequered flag!
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Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:25 pm
by Bootsy
Wonderful pics

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 10:24 pm
by dragonfly
Great write up and photos, and delighted to hear you had such a great day

Re: 356 Race Car

Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:47 pm
by Winston Teague
More great stuff. Keep it coming and good luck, Winston