356 Race Car

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john ruston
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by john ruston »

Each U S series has a different set of regs.

The East Coast stuff is silhouette except for engines.

Different fuel tank and disc brakes.

The 1600 engines are 15/20 bop more than proper FIA units
steve wright
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by steve wright »

Well I thought it about time I updated on the race car. It's sat in the workshop dismantled all winter while various bits have been under development. After the brake issues at Outlon Park that saw me experience an almighty spin into Lodge I decided enough was enough, so we have spent a lot of time and effort researching everything brake-related. From airflow under the car and getting cooling ducts and hoses sorted front and rear, to drilling the GT front backing plates (I tell you I had to take a deep breath before I drilled 62 holes in each of them!) As Ian pointed out, better to do that and have them effective than crash because of overheating brakes that destroy a GT drum....

And then there was the mine field of shoe material. Of all the differences between race and road it's probably brakes that show up the differing requirements so sharply. We ended up with a material that will survive at 375 degrees, so that gives you a sense of the stress. There's no way we're generating that sort of temperature, but I figured there was no harm in being conservative. Thanks to Andy Prill for his advice on shoes and John Ruston for letting us crawl all over his pre-A at the Spa six hour last year to see the development he's put into that car. The other thing I did with the brakes was take the complete set of drums down to Ollie Crosthwaite who runs Crosthwaite and Gardiner. He machined off the old, worn linings, and installed new ones, that we're also pinned. He commented that the front linings were coming away from the aluminium drum and one was beyond it's wear limit, so it was good to have that done. Having C&G as your local machine shop is pretty handy. Worthwhile if you're ever down that way to pop your head in and say hello - if you're truly interested Ollie won't hesitate to take you around, and it's not every day you see Auto Unions, pre-war Mercedes, Bugatti engines and brakes, Porsche 910 and 917 magnesium wheels, etc, etc. Of course this is all new stuff. Basically if it was ever made (and with their cad cam stuff now not even the old part is required) then it can be made again. Amazing. Ollie also had a set of genuine GT rear backing plates at the factory, so we copied them for the race car.

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The other thing we focus on each winter is that whatever comes off the car has to go back on lighter. That way you're constantly adding to the speed and handling of the car for very little effort. Thanks to Mike Smith at PRS for these little beauties. Ally brake shoe splitter bar....
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A useful weight saving on the drilled steel ones that were on there previously:
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And thanks to Paul at PRS who also gave me a set of spring-plates and covers for the long torsion bars when I bought the '54 last month. So the covers obviously got drilled:
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Material from front GT backing plates - it all helps!
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As I was writing this coincidently I had a call from the brake lining company to say he had received the GT shoes and wasn't surprised we had had problems. "As effective as compressed cardboard" were his exact words, so I'm hoping for truly wondrous things when we turn up to Robert Barrie's track day at Goodwood to shake down the car.

The other thing we've focused on is the suspension, rebuilding the Koni shocks, installing new torsion bars, as well as a host of other developments that should see the car corner flatter and harder, hopefully allowing us to carry more speed through the corners.

So the race calendar for us is looking pretty packed:

We've got seven HSCC Guards Trophy races spread from spring to autumn. A great series, especially the camaraderie, but the combination of GT with Sports Racers is a little tiresome at times. We're often the oldest car with the smallest engine so having to constantly watch your mirrors for Chevron's that hunt in packs of three or four can be less than fun. But it's a great series and tremendous value. As the car is a '58 we've entered the Pre-'63 series. http://www.historicmotorracingnews.com. The fact that the cut-off is three years earlier makes a big difference (no pesky 911's! :wink: ) and definitely no sports racers so the field is more evenly matched. Having said that, there's still a magnificent array of cars in the series, from Aston Martin Prototypes and DB4 GT's, Ferrari 250 SWB, Cobra's, E-Types, Lotus Elite's, Austin Healey's, and then an array of 356, from Pre-A's to Carrera's and Abarth GTL's. And the list of entrants is like a roll call of who's who. We're doing two races this year, the Donington Historic and Silverstone Classic. Both look to be tremendous events. And finally we've joined FISCAR (the '50's sports car racing club). The HSCC hosted them a couple of times last year and it was great to see these races, so we're going to do Oulton Park and the Silverstone International for both FISCAR and HSCC races, getting two races per weekend, which is great. The highlight of the HSCC calendar for me is the Snetterton Autosport 3 Hour. It's a proper endurance race for an old car and to just finish is an accomplishment, recognised by the HSCC with a lovely little prize for all finishers. We've finished 15th overall each year and third in class, which I'm determined to beat this year. In both previous races we've had various issues that held us back (brakes both times!) as well as inexperience, so I'm hoping we can better it this year. Joining us to do an hours stint in the car this year is Nick Fulljames (the owner of Redtek). Besides being a 911 engine guru Nick raced for 13 years and was also a race instructor so the boy can pedal a car!

We're off to Goodwood as I mentioned on the 21st of this month for testing. This is the first year where we've had the car sufficiently well sorted to undertake any pre-season testing. In the first year we had so many things to sort that the cars first proper outing was at its first race! Last year Ian was rebuilding the engine and gearbox and delays from America in shipping parts meant we ran the engine in at practice for the first race. So it's slightly luxurious this year to be thinking about testing a range of front roll bar diameters, optimising the wheel alignment, getting a dry and damp suspension set up, etc. before the season starts.

So here we go, another years racing! As famously said by Mr McQueen, "Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." Thank goodness the waiting is over!
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)

http://www.pushrod.org

http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
neilbardsley
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by neilbardsley »

Great update Steve and very informative too. I'm sure that testing and development on the track will make a big difference for next year.
“A REMINDER. I would be grateful if those members who have borrowed bits from me in emergencies (e.g starter motor, oil cooler, etc) would return them and/or contact me”. – Chris Turner RIP
Pandora
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by Pandora »

See you at Donnington Historic Festival! (on the Monday, if you are still there. At a Mini meet on the Sunday)

Al
steve wright
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by steve wright »

Damn. The saying goes that if you can't afford to break it, don't race it. It's still hard when you've used a days annual leave, spent £250 on track day fees, had a 5am start, and gone to all the effort, money and time that is associated with a winter rebuild to get the car ready for a new race season, and get just 30 minutes testing before it goes bang.

The cause of the bang was the flywheel separating from the crank, the only component inside the engine that was original. Actually it wasn't the crank that snapped but old dowel pins, allowing the flywheel to separate from the crank. Ian and I had debated whether to put a new crank in the motor when he rebuilt it a year ago, but we opted to retain it as crack testing showed no issues. But it was a tiny 6mm steel dowel pin that failed. Removing them wasn't an option as part of the rebuild as they're a press fit and tremendously difficult to remove without damaging the end of the crank.

Fortunately it was on a warm down lap so it was at low revs and without load on the motor. It was also at the end, rather than the middle of the crank, so damage is restricted to the end of the flywheel which can be resurfaced, and the flywheel oil seal which is a disposable item anyway. I've seen motors where the crank or rod has snapped at high rpm and the momentum and now uncontrolled parts have literally sawn a line through the crankcase, destroyed the pistons, heads and most other components. So we've got off lightly. There's no way of getting the sheared dowel pins out the crank and frankly given it's an original non-counterweighted crank that has probably seen 25 years of race use we're replacing it with a new crank.

The silver lining is that it happened in testing rather than during a race which would've been a major pain, both financially and for my pride. Ian had the motor out 30 minutes later to confirm the diagnosis and it's already apart being rebuilt.

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We've already got a new Scat counterweighted knife-edge crank on order with PRS and Ian will take the opportunity to fit new lighter pistons and barrels to raise compression from 9 to 10.5:1, which should really bring the engine alive. The crank will also be good for 9,000rpm and being new metal should see many years of race use. What it does mean is that we've now a major effort on our hands to get the engine rebuilt and run-in in time for our first race in April. I must've cursed things when I remarked just before the start of the day at Goodwood that this was the first year we had been ready for the season with time to spare for testing. So much for that!

Although the days testing went out the window, which was a major pain as we we're hoping to test new front sway bars thicknesses, vary tyre pressure setting, play with damper settings, and see how the brake development and suspension rebuild worked, it wasn't all lost. Robert Barrie kindly took Ian and I out for a series of laps in his car. Talk about instructive - it was a real education in how to drive a car quickly. Made especially pointed because we've been racing for a couple of seasons so have an appreciation for what's involved in pedalling a car quickly around a circuit. It just reinforced to me that the weakest component in my car is me, and you can fanny about all you like with taking a few grams of here and gaining a few horsepower there, but the real opportunity to gain time on a circuit is always with the skill, talent and experience of the driver. So we'll rebuild the engine, make improvements, and dust ourselves off before the season begins, but I will definitely be booking track days with instruction at as many circuits as I can this year.
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)

http://www.pushrod.org

http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
sladey
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by sladey »

Not great news but could even a lot worse and a great opportunity for more tweaking
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
neilbardsley
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by neilbardsley »

Ouch! However, as you said that is what testing is for!
“A REMINDER. I would be grateful if those members who have borrowed bits from me in emergencies (e.g starter motor, oil cooler, etc) would return them and/or contact me”. – Chris Turner RIP
911hillclimber
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by 911hillclimber »

Look forward to seeing the car over the season.

Many of these great classic car race meets clash with the hillclimb events, Donnington for instance... :(
We have two friends who race in the Masters and the Guards. Racing is very expensive compared to hillclimbing but I spend a total of about 4.5 minutes in the seat over a weekend and no track 'mates' to lean on me...mixed blessings.

Hope it all comes back together and stays in one piece.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
dragonfly
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by dragonfly »

Hi Steve, it was great to meet you and Ian and I was really sorry your day was over so soon.
If it's any consolation, your car looked fabulous on track as I followed you round early on when it was still very damp.
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Robert took me for a couple of laps at the end of the day too, and he certainly makes that little Clio fly.
Al
Member #665
'81 911SC Arrow Blue
Dragonfly 28 trimaran - no speed limits at sea
steve wright
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by steve wright »

Hi Al, yes good to meet you too. Great photo! I distinctly remember that moment as the 356 was just getting out of shape as the Cessna flew in to land - I recall instinctively ducking in the car as I saw it out the corner of my eye! The car was a real handful - very damp, new suspension that was way too stiff for the damp conditions, first time out wearing a Hans device, etc, etc. all over 15 minutes later unfortunately so we never got a chance to dial the car in.

Yes humbling to see Robert fling the Clio round. The boy can certainly pedal a car :)

911Hillclimber, Ian likens it to tequila shots versus a fine wine. Both potentially lead to a hangover but the endurance racing is something you savour. The hillclimb or quarter mile is a shot glass of adrenalin!
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)

http://www.pushrod.org

http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
dragonfly
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by dragonfly »

I had a set of 60-profile road tyres instead of the usual Kumho track tyres and it was really slippery early on (it was only 4 degrees with clear skies when I left home nearby). I thought I'd made a terrible mistake first time out as I had no grip at all, and almost dashed home to swap wheels but thankfully others confirmed it was the track conditions so I persevered. Once I got more confident I really enjoyed it, as the car moved about much more than before but was very progressive.
I now understand how Fordwater earned its reputation, as it was flat in top with the track tyres but was very definitely an off-camber corner this time.
A fabulous day, thanks again Robert
Al
Member #665
'81 911SC Arrow Blue
Dragonfly 28 trimaran - no speed limits at sea
steve wright
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1036
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:17 pm

Re: 356 Race Car

Post by steve wright »

Phew. Andy Prill came through with a host of brand spanking new parts: 8,500rpm Scat knife-edge crank and 11.5:1 (holy cow that's high) Shasta FSR box 83mm pistons (super light - 50g! and very strong) and billet durabar extruded iron cylinders - top quality stuff :) . God knows what that has cost but now an easy 100hp per litre and will rev like a banshee saw gone mental… Yee-haa, we're going racing! Thanks Andy, much appreciated….

Image
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)

http://www.pushrod.org

http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
one-two
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by one-two »

Hope all those goodies are going in my pre-A engine too! When is your first race this season Steve? Best wishes, Robert
Pandora
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Re: 356 Race Car

Post by Pandora »

Did you ask Andy how he's getting on with Pandora? (the car, not me!)

Al
steve wright
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1036
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:17 pm

Re: 356 Race Car

Post by steve wright »

Robert, I think I recall seeing "R Barrie" on the boxes so maybe they were destined for your car! Sorry bout that ;)

Al, I didn't make the call to Andy P, Ian did - they need to talk technical anorak detail so thought it was better they speak directly rather than me relay things secondhand. I've never made a good secretary!
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)

http://www.pushrod.org

http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
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