Amazing barn find and a journey of discovery

[210bhp]

mike we need a summary of everything to this point!

Indeed, I will bring the situation up to date tonight and then try to do a summary

[TimB]

Mike/Brendan
Fantastic find and a great story, many congratulations; having gone through something similar myself I can fully understand the highs and lows you go through as you close in on the deal and the frustrations you encounter as you try to pull together the full picture.
Interested in the comments regarding Mr Landenberger and the lack of response from the archive department. I talked with Dieter at the Oldtimer GP at the Nurburgring a couple of years ago and gave him a document that summarised what I had discovered about my car up to that point including photos; despite making a number of follow up phone calls over the following twelve months I got absolutely nothing! From my experience the Porsche interest in their heritage seems to be a little one sided, whilst I wanted to learn more about my specific car I was also keen to try and discover more about the general build/specification etc. of the TR type cars of the late ‘60’s; I have subsequently obtained a copy of the Kardex for my car and some supporting documents through another route but it shouldn’t be made that difficult given the resources at their disposal.
I believe you can visit the archive department by appointment but given my experience to date I will probably wait until I am over there rather than making a special visit!
I hope you both have better luck in your dealings with the factory.

[KS]

I know Dieter well and can understand why there might be an apparent lack of interest, but I can assure you that is not the case. The problem is that the archive section of Porsche at the new museum is grossly understaffed for the task in hand. Having been to, and through, the archives, public and otherwise, I can say that the task they have ahead of them, trying to bring all the documentation together in an easily accessible and organised way, is nothing short of monumental. For me, it would be a job from heaven, but it won't be a quick process. They get literally dozens of requests for information every day. Some is easily accessed but other material requires lengthy searching through files. I have found them to be nothing other than courteous, helpful and interested.

[TimB]

Keith
I suppose we can only judge by personal experience, providing an explanation along the lines you have given might be a good start for their profile because I am not alone in experiencing these frustrations.
Anyway not wanting to distract from this great story I hope you can help Mike & Brendan access the information they seek.

[naparsei]

There is also a Jo Siffert film which came out in 2005. I wonder if any footage of the car would be in there... if it was his car or the dealerships'?

[Bootsy]

There is also a Jo Siffert film which came out in 2005. I wonder if any footage of the car would be in there... if it was his car or the dealerships'?

A film with a wonderful soundtrack if you like mellow funk!

[210bhp]

It was a great thrill to find that Jo Siffert had bought the car. We have yet to finalise that part of the research. From what I gather the family and his former employees in Geneva are now scattered over the world doing their own thing and we have a feeling it will be difficult to pin down any details of the car at that point. It was only in his possession for a short time and was probably one of many.
But who knows........
Any leads from this period would be gratefully received (thanks for the book and film leads). If we were able to get any photos from the time that would be fantastic but certainly that would be a long shot. Paddy McNally confirmed that the car was on German Export Number Plates during it's time in Switzerland so photos whould likely include these. We know the car was light ivory through all of this period with it's distinctive red interior.

The transfer from Jo Siffert to the UK is also a mystery at this point but a RHD car in Geneva either for sale in period magazines or other publications must have been fairly unique. We are looking for any ideas on where, how, who may have helped sell a RHD car in approx 1970/71 from Switzerland to the UK. It could have been a private transaction or back through AFN, we just don't know.

[210bhp]

We do know from the dvla records that the first registered keeper in the UK following it's importation was this guy,

Michael Grafton Patterson
The Dower House
Ombersley
Worcestershire


Again, we have not been able to trace anything of this chap but he may hold the key to the Siffert/UK transfer.

We have also been advised to contact AFN to see if records show a transfer at this point (Ian has already pointed out that the official first sale from the factory is not recorded even though PCGB are mentioned on the build sheet).

Any help on tracing this first UK owner gratefully received. Interestingly, he has a very Scottish surname but we do know that it took several owners and years for the car to finally arrive in Scotland. The East Kilbride connection turned out to be a red herring. The farmer's memory must have been playing tricks as the dvla records show that he bought the car from a guy in Easterhouse which is also a district of Glasgow like East Kilbride.

[Bruce M]

What does the dvla have to say?

<<edit: too slow . >>

[210bhp]

We know when the car was repainted. This was done in 'the borders' of Scotland at a garage still in business today and Brendan has spoken to the then owner.

Rather interestingly he did not remember the car too well (a chap in his retirement now) principally because he restored/repaired/repainted 15 to 20 911's in the seventies! He was interested to find out if we can jog his memory with some photos so we will take a trip down to his house at some point. It was likely that the ducktail was fitted during his 'refresh'. Unfortunately it would appear he won't have any specific documentation of the work done at the time. Tantalisingly he also told Brendan he still has a significant old Porsche car tucked away in a barn awaiting restoration or sale!! No real details other than it's a RHD 1951 356 (just kiddin!), we don't really know what it is but it will be an another interesting day out I'm sure!

[904GTS]

Bit of a long shot but it might be worth contacting Brian Redman as he was usually paired with Siffert during that period and could have been involved in a possible sale to the UK ?

Barrie

[210bhp]

Worth a try Barrie thanks, I know that Brian Redman was also involved in a dealership selling P road cars in the US about that time but this may be irrelevant.

We did write, as a very long shot, speculatively to Jackie Stewart thinking of his Swiss/Scottish connection in the hope he knew the car. He was a contempory of Jo Siffert. We assumed the car came direct from Switzerland to Scotland but in a very nice and speedy reply J'S confirmed he did not know the car. We had letters crossing in the post and, in fact, the dvla reply confirming it's transfer was not direct to Scotland ( we also knew JS had a road car dealership near Glasgow at one time so it was worth a shot) came in just before he replied.

[davep]

So if Robs Lamplough never really took possession, why did he have it converted to RHD? That must have been a significant expense. Does Paddy have much to say about why it was converted? How extensive was the conversion? There is considerable panel difference in the front to accommodate the steering linkage, and the heater compartment disappears, does it not?
Any date codes on the engine case, transmission case, and instruments could be revealing.
I would not have been surprised that it was a RHD from the start. I would have expected that the factory would construct all versions of the car (coupe, Targa, RHD) to test. Perhaps even a 912, and also Karmann versions. The other interesting thing is the 13xxx series (in which the original 911 & 912 prototypes were assigned) was originally a series for replacement bodies. After the prototypes were built, the series continued to be used for replacement bodies, including LWB models into 1969. Now, the production number (as stamped on the knee frame) was introduced in 1968 (for the 1969 models, and some report it on late 1968 model year but not confirmed). The production number was coded for replacement or production bodies. I do know of some 1970 replacement bodies, but so far no 1969 replacement bodies. Karmann bodies had an additional body # stamped on the tunnel under the coupler access cover. If anyone does some scouting, and are willing to report, I'd like to get more data on both production number and Karmann #; PM's are fine and I keep the info confidential. Early 912 Karmann bodies had the Karmann # stamped in the speaker recess on the top of the dash; I need to determine when they changed locations.

Wow, 4 members and 32 guests looking at this thread.

[sfh3l]

I've got to say guys that this story is absolutely rivetting! I have logged onto the site every day to see if there is more news and you have, for the most part, not disappointed. Well done on finding such an interesting car, for preserving it from rotting away and also in your story-telling, which I think is just the best I have seen in a long time.

You could even make my life sound interesting!

[bjmullan]

Dave you pose several interesting questions and to be honest right now we don't have the answers. The one thing that I am sure of is the conversion is comprehensive and looks correct. Contact with the archive will hopefully help in this area.

It is our intention to spend sometime in the next week or two going over the car with a fine tooth comb and taking lots of picture so that we can completely document the car. I am sure that we will share the numbers with you then.

One final thing from me. As any of you that attended the 2007 Scottish tour will know, it was me that did all the work to organise the tour and it's been the same with the barn find! But I must congratulate Mike on a fantastic job of telling the story so far; I really couldn't have done it without him, and neither could have Mike without me... and that's what make a great partnership.