DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Really exciting stuff!!! Im hoping to pop down this week to have a look myself. Gutted about the inability to pop in m,ore regular but with the distance from Middlesborough to Hastings, work and young family it just hasnt happened.

Was at the ddk curry night last week and 'paint jobs' came up in conversation and has thrown me into turmoil again. Question is what is a 'fair price'.....?

Ive got to go down south this week hopefully to deliver my sold seat, collect wheels, collect seat bases and pop into see Barry

It's a question of hours on paint. Think around 200 for prep for a top job...

Car is looking amazing btw....what craftsmanship

Quite a series of up-dates!

Great work of course and always fascinating to see.
Thank you v much for posting.

murph2309 wrote:Think around 200 for prep for a top job.....

....or even 250-300 hours if they're being careful!

So you spend just about 6 whole weeks prepping the shell, and then some more painting and finishing the paint on top of that?

Then at £50/hour that must be £12,000 in prep + materials, then paint...

I was going to get a quote from a local company who are doing a 356 on here, but I think I'll go with how I did mine in '89 and DIY.

That is a lot of time and effort obviously needed for a 1st Class paint result.

Depends what you're looking for Graham.

I've seen restored 911's with a £250K plus value put against them that to me look they've been assembled in the dark by someone wearing a blindfold; recently a well known Porsche publication featured a rare early car with a door fit so shockingly poor that I'm surprised the restoration company involved owned up to being associated withe the car.......

....at the other end of the scale one of my favourite DDK cars, and certainly the most impressive, is Mick's Charteuse Targa and he painted that under a tarpaulin at the side of his garage, Chris Jury painted his car with a roller and Jamie did a truly exceptional job with the prep of his 912 although he really understands light and line and sees things other don't. I'd rate these three cars way above the first two I mention yet the paint cost involved wouldn't have come close.

Nothing wrong with DIY and the guys I mention prove that this can lead to exceptional results.

However the fact remains that if you're taking a bare metal restored shell, not only preparing it for paint but also going through a process that ensures it'll last for decades it's going to take a LOT of hours.....you wouldn't believe the amount of time it took just to seam seal Kieron's car!

Sadly we've had to pull away from 911 work as we just can't find the hours required to dedicate to these wonderful cars...........Adam's car is an exceptional shell that imo deserves exceptional prep and paint.

If, like the first two cars I mentioned, you're happy with what looks like a nice 'restored' car and is near enough then there's a deal to be had somewhere........but then if you'd rather a car that looks 'new' as when it left the factory then that's going to take a little more....

.....if someone's not quoting you at least 250 hours plus then you need to ask why?

Cheers,

I'm amazed Porsche ever got a car to leave the factory it takes so bloody long to prepare one for paint.....

I did my 911 in a single car garage in 2 weeks in cellulose having painted 4 cars before and it is looking shabby now, so thinking of a bare metal again.
Interesting perspective and I guess ALL good shops want the very best job to leave their booths.

Darren65 wrote:
If, like the first two cars I mentioned, you're happy with what looks like a nice 'restored' car and is near enough then there's a deal to be had somewhere........but then if you'd rather a car that looks 'new' as when it left the factory then that's going to take a little more...

I'd be interested to see a real untouched factory car next to the high spec paint we aspire to these days. I have to check my figures but I'm sure we don't spend that long painting a Mulsanne from bare metal and that's mirror finish and about four times the surface area!

I'm pretty sure factory paint would be closer to a good DIY effort than something from your own paint booth Darren. I can't imagine it would be colour sanded for example.

It certainly isn't rust proofed anything like as well, or with as much detail care.

I think our expectations have just moved on, orange peel isn't welcome, and we'd rather the body lasted more than 3 years.

Guys you're talking chalk and cheese.

Back in the day you had a modern (then) production line, all new panels from fresh moulds on an arrow straight fresh chassis. The shell was dipped, seam sealing was course and quick, panels went on and stayed on with the exception of the doors/engine lid etc, etc. Paint then would have been hand finished......oh, plus a few hundred guys working a line that was designed to be as slick as possible.......

.....and then the cars started rotting out within ten years!

Today if you're taking a totally bare restored shell (not just a respray), no matter how good Barry's or any metal restorers work is, there'll be a mix of new and old metal, and there will a huge amount of effort involved to get every surface flat and true. New panels are rarely straight and these have come off and go back on again umpteen times to maintain and check gaps. We have always tried to replicate the rough factory seam sealing but then always seal every gap the factory didn't and disguise it in a way that isn't obvious.....there's no production line, no continued flow of work on crisp new metal and it all takes many, many hours.

When I mention trying to create a car that looks factory 'new' rather than 'restored', I'm not talking about glossy paint finishes, overspray or painting under the hood......I'm talking about a straight, clean, fresh looking car with uniform paint that isn't over done, decent gaps and a car that looks like it has zero filler in it rather than one with half an inch in places.......and that all takes time!

I dare say Adam could get get his car prepped and painted in a little over 100 hours but seriously doubt that's the car he wants!

Sorry for taking this thread off track

As soon as you bloody drive them they stone chip to hell anyway....that's the biggest inevitible downer of a 911 shape

Stone chips are signs of use / fun - nothing wrong with them. Not a big issue to get the front in repainted.

In the end my dilemma is 1: cost and 2: "cheque book restoration". Whilst I acknowledge my own strengths and weaknesses I have got myself into a situation where, other than dismantling the car, I have had very little input. What I would love to do is paint the car myself Darren is right insofar as I want a cracking paint job but is this an opportunity to get my hands dirty (and save £10-£15k) however I most likely will get a car where I will forever point out the areas of orange peel etc....
Mick and his targa is truly inspirational as Darren mentions and that feeling of pride he has must be amazing!! Mick is the exception to the rule. I resprayed a Landrover 20 yrs ago and it was covered in runs and panels different shades
Does anyone have any info/YouTube/books/experience to help advise me as the day is looming where I need to make a decision....
I want to enhance Barry's craftsmanship not ruin it

good place to start is Jamie's trials and tribulations ( spelling ? ) about the home prep & paint of his shell. Ultimately Jamie had teh top coat applied proffessionally, but nearly all the prep work was his ... genuinely I know you don't have the patience or time to paint your shell to the level you'd want ... spend your time assembling the cars running gear etc eg something you can dip in & out of depending on how busy you are

page 33 onwards will let you know what you could be into

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=41081&start=480

Go for it girlfriend. It's a skill you can acquire. The cost is mainly your time.

I wanted to get to the point where I can repair most of the car myself - at one level it removes the worry of breaking anything

The more you do stuff the better you get at it. Research helps. The main expense is your time and if you approach it the right way mentally that isn't an expense - it's part of the enjoyment.