Is it just me, or...

[KS]

You guys are completely missing my original point. It's the 'gentrification' of certain aspects of Porsche modification that gets me – not modifying in itself. I get tired of so many 'restomod' (ugh!!!!) 911s aimed at people for whom ownership is nothing more than a pissing contest. No interest in the marque's history, or how the car's drive – just want to turn up at Luftgekuhlt, Rennsport Reunion or the local Cars & Coffeee in a heavily modded 911 that is all about style over substance.

[coomo]

You guys are completely missing my original point. It's the 'gentrification' of certain aspects of Porsche modification that gets me – not modifying in itself. I get tired of so many 'restomod' (ugh!!!!) 911s aimed at people for whom ownership is nothing more than a pissing contest. No interest in the marque's history, or how the car's drive – just want to turn up at Luftgekuhlt, Rennsport Reunion or the local Cars & Coffeee in a heavily modded 911 that is all about style over substance.

Thatll,be every Singer owner then.Kinda reminds me of a bike spot we visit for refreshments.On many occasions a classic car club will be having a meet.Rows of vintage custom yanks, painfully restored,with "hoods" raised to display the tears and blood sacrificed in restoration.Inevitably in the lineup there will
be a "whatever the current yank supercar,with 10,000 hp and 6 blowers" sitting there too.A brand new car.kinda not really what its about.Tends to happen at Ferrari meets too.Not that ive ever purposely been to one...........

[KS]

And so it goes...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/fuchs ... 3dWF4xwAm8

The $6350 set of 'flat six' Fuchs wheels, which don't even share the same date codes...

[hot66]

My worry is …. People buy a lot of these cars on asthetics alone but with the belief they are going to have the Chris Harris style of tyre ripping Porsche experience …. But ultimately find they just have the slight dull over tyred wide body sc experience ( which might be nice in isolation ) but isn’t the early car experience we all know .

The result is lots of buyers who think the early Porsche experience is over rated .

Let’s be honest, most here on Ddk with early cars have owned them before the daft price rises and have the cars because we enjoy the driving experience / design etc rather than the hype ….. and we like to think we can share this enthusiasm …. But to be knocked back on this due to half assed builds at stupid money is frustrating

[hot66]

Just to add … I’m way out of my comfort zone in Essex having a few really crap beers , so take anything I post with a pinch of salt

[911hillclimber]

Read yesterday about the Crawford 'forward-dated' early 911 GT.
Heated steering wheel and seats and soon, heated carpets (under floor heating in a Porsche?)

Kept the early engine with modern PMO injection, 3.2 brakes and narrow body, very neat interior, inc iPhone charging in the door pockets

Many of these features come in almost every modern car, and focus on comfort for the GT drives across Europe or elsewhere.

Maybe this is where things are going, driver comfort in the old design.

He has 2 more to do, so some demand.

So much of the old 911 magic is hard to access in my part of the UK where everywhere is busy making the performance somewhat irrelevant.
I appreciate this can be negated by location (ie James' county) or early morning escapes, but a run into Wales is not very exciting be it in a 911, Boxster or Skoda Superb.

i think most of us are comfortably 'trapped' in the early car dream because we understand it, like it, and live it when the mood takes us.

[Lightweight_911]

.

I've said this many times but - for me at least - the appeal of 'old' cars is to be able to experience (as far as possible) the way they would have driven 'in period'.

I don't want to diminish that experience with modern accoutrements & unnecessary (added) weight - air conditioning, sound deadening, pimped-up interior, unusable power output, huge wheels & tyres, etc


.

[RobFrost]

For me every car tells a story - some a compelling story, some not so enjoyable. I enjoy the "early 911" tale of what it was like back in the day, I enjoy the "Singer" tale of striving for perfection in every detail, while tipping a hat to a classic. I enjoy the "old banger" tale of a life well-lived and all the scars accumulated as evidence. I do get where you're coming from with the endless recycling of the same concept. It reminds me why I can't bear to watch superhero movies any more.

[sisu]

Am I the only one who is getting tired of the endless 'Singer-alike' backdate 'restomod' (God, I hate that word!) 911s that crop up everywhere? Singer did a class job (even though I don't actually like the end result, I can still appreciate the workmanship) but why does everyone and his dog think he can do better, or do the same for less money, or pretend he's as good?

I thought the whole idea of building/driving a custom/hotrod/outlaw/whatever was to be different?

I remember years ago seeing an interview with a skinhead/mod bloke who was asked why he and all his mates wore Crombies, Ben Shermans, rolled-up Levis, braces and Doc Martens. His answer was that he wanted to look different...

To your point I think that applies to other cars, but the Singer thing is where, like most custom or colour combinations people want the same or follow the same formula as they are all looking at the same stuff.
With a Porsche or early VW you only have a handful of wheel combinations to go with. Before anyone starts rattling off the oddball ones sitting in their garage or the ones they have seen online. Take a moment to realise that many people will seek out these oddball wheel combos because they don't look good, but they are rare and so appeal to the Automotive dandy.
I actually don't like the Singer as the bits that identify them are the bits I hate, the central ashtray sized fuel filler cap that you scratch the fenders as you fill up, the 5cm leadlights in a 911 headlight bucket, 1/4 windows with a mirror drilled thru them so you can't open them and the Testarossa monospecchio moment of 911 design "oh that wasn't a good idea, but its a one year mistake so we must all love it now" the Passenger side oil filler flap, only Reliant Simitar owners not mentioning Queen Anne, will a 911 nerd explain why they only did this for one year.

Personally I can see why people make a knock off version of Singers as there is a 5 year waiting list and people want it now. I just think the 911 scene is a bit stagnent, even the outlaw cars are cut from the same cloth.
This is only my opinion, but the same sort of person who buys a Nissan GTR in the JDM scene and the Singer/Outlaw 911 owner share the same type of characteristics.
You are then only known for the colour of the paint code or the shade of the interior.

[deano]

I think everything gets gentrified sooner or later, and I think we all know the consequences.

I personally find all of these bespoke/restomod/singer-esque Porkers really interesting - except for yellow headlight lenses!

I'm sure that many, but not all, of their owners are just as passionate at talking about the bits and pieces of their cars as we are talking about the bits and pieces of our totally stock or relatively standard and, arguably, much-more-boring cars.

I think the good thing about gentrification in our cases is that we all have a valuable retirement cushion if we need it, assuming we can still buy fuel by then....

[coomo]

As far as "Professional" modifiers go,I like these guys.Most of their builds vary which is nice.Plus they are not overblown, or look like a prostitutes jewellery box.Comments guys?
https://www.accumoto.com/road

[christaylorsound]

You guys are completely missing my original point. It's the 'gentrification' of certain aspects of Porsche modification that gets me – not modifying in itself. I get tired of so many 'restomod' (ugh!!!!) 911s aimed at people for whom ownership is nothing more than a pissing contest. No interest in the marque's history, or how the car's drive – just want to turn up at Luftgekuhlt, Rennsport Reunion or the local Cars & Coffeee in a heavily modded 911 that is all about style over substance.

Well said Keith, even a meet up with friends and coffee is 30 quid these days.... I've been bangin' on about gentrification for a while, perhaps I'm just behind the times. If there is a band wagon I guess it's difficult not to jump on it if profit is your motivation.

[911hillclimber]

Profit is the motivation in all these versions of a Singer, if that is how to group them.
Seems there is a long queue of people happy to buy them too, simple Supply and Demand.
Good business, 5 year waiting list for a real Singer says it all.

Very rare you see a 'non-trade' 'singer' 911 built, esp a DIY build.

The Alfas recently offered for £300K plus are a similar case, re-worked E Types too.

Many magazines would be hollow without these cars!

[Sam]

*shrug*

964s are much more comfy long-distance cars than early cars, so it’s easy to see why buyers of a certain age like the idea of a backdated one that looks like the car they lusted after in their youth but that their wife wont mind passengering in. After that it’s just how well they’re marketed and how big the customer’s bank balance is.

The fad will pass as the next generation gets rich but doesn’t remember the long bonnet cars and would rather just have a 964.

Anyone who has fully restored a 911 at a specialist recently will know that £150k is very easily spent if you’re doing it properly, so £200k for a well put together backdate doesn’t feel too mega-greedy to me.

It’s mental money, of course, but everything is now. You can drop £100k on any number of mass-produced, totally average luxury or sports cars. A well equipped Turbo S is £200k, the new Aston Vantage V12 looks like being almost £400k.

From 1984 to 1989 the base price of a 911 doubled from early £20ks to mid £40ks, since 1989 it still hasn’t doubled again at early £80ks. My folks bought a 3 bed semi in 1988 for £55k, about the same as a 944 Turbo I think. The next door house sold last year for £600k, so cars are a bargain really, even a £500k Singer looks good compared to a 1930s semi.

[70sThrowback]

I have no issue with Singer, or Eagle for the E Types. They both developed a car that looked like the one that people dream over, slightly wider yes and with some "outlaw" touches. But for me these weren't about profit, they were about engineering and building the best possible version that with todays tech Porsche and Jaguar may have built now. Its not their fault that the product was so successful that others have copied them, but an inferior version of. Bit like Gunther, the ccar industry and fans alike, need companies like this to do something different.