DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

We are currently finishing a body restoration on a 60's VW split screen bus, after we are done it is going to Wales for an EV conversion, I couldn't be less interested in what happens to it once it leaves our workshop, which is a shame as we've put a lot of effort into it so far.

I can see the appeal of an engineering challenge, but I'll get my challenges elsewhere thanks!

I can see that there are a certain number of people for whom owning a classic is about the looks and they don't care how it's powered.

But I'm with KS on this, I just don't get it, you are removing the very thing that gives a classic it's mechanical soul. It's like watching TV with the sound off, or playing a record without the needle down, you are only getting half the experience, probably not even half!

That said, each to their own and it's just another type of Hotrodding as Johnny said. We all have different tastes

Indeed, nobody is telling anyone what to do with the classic vehicle, owner's choice.

There was an electric VWbus at the Classic show too.

Seems like a total waste to me, like many have said by removing the engine you lose the soul of the car, not only this but by replacing it with heavy batteries you are ruining the handling of the car too. Would be interesting to know if the car is worth more or holds its value well or if it is de-valued by the swap (it would be in my eyes but obviously there's a market out there for these for some reason) I cant believe that there is any environmental benefit from doing this swap given the carbon/pollution footprint of batteries and motors.

I think this is all too early still, maybe in 10-15-20 years if petrol is mega expensive but also hard to get hold of, or if regulation was making use of the cars very difficult, and battery technology and motors are much cheaper, more common, faster charging, lighter and better range, THEN I could understand it as an unfortunate necessity. However we are a long way from that point.

The way I see it now is that it is totally unnecessary at the moment and electric technology is improving rapidly. All of these recent conversions will be ancient, and have pretty crap performance (range, charge time, battery weight, motor efficiency) in 15 years time when the swap might be more relevant. Im pretty sure that even if these swapped cars seem to have some appeal now and hold their value, it wont last very long as the electronic technology improves. What will this 356 be worth in 15 years compared to its current value once its range, weight and charge speed is considered to be total rubbish? I saw a BMW 2002 converted about 7-8 years ago, the weight of batteries was ridiculous, the car was bigged up at the time by one of these EV conversion players... the car must be worthless now, I bet you cant give those big old heavy battery packs away...

For me it is a non starter until either we are forced to do it, by economies/regulation, OR until the technology improves to the point that the power-weight-range balance is at least the same as the original ICE engines, i.e. you can fit a motor and battery pack without any weight gain vs the stock engine, and have the range of a full tank of fuel.

In time all the downsides of ev's will become clear. Higher manufacturing pollution, less longevity of the vehicle, the horrendous ecological impact of lithium mining, depositing poisonous metals into our environment and food chain, the clearing of vegetation for solar cells by the wealthy and greedy, and the subsequent famine for the poor and weak.

Ultimately I expect we will probably combust synthetic fuels or hydrogen which has been produced out of sunlight and I'm hopeful our classic engines will be able to run on it or something similar. Porsche is clearly trying to position itself for leadership in this market and I think it has seen the future clearer than all the other manufacturers. One could see synthetic fuels as a hedge bet for Porsche against the rush to EVs failing but I suspect there are some at the top trying to be coy about Porsche's strategy - trying not to alert other manufacturers to the fact they're missing the real opportunity.

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Jonny Hart wrote:Fair comment but getting the pitchforks out every time there is a EV post is getting tiresome.

For me, as an engineer, this is a new and exciting chapter in our hobby and the pace of development is astounding. There is a buzz around classics that has been missing for a while.

Having watched the video the way that 356 pitches and rolls makes me wonder if EV everything is the answer? Yes a cafe crawler or Chelsea tractor EV is good. But is that Electric 356 the car you want to be in on a damp B road in Britain?

Yes, I am fascinated by the engineering involved, but realise why all the classic car EV conversions use a Hyper9 motor which is just a finned heat sink and call it a day as rapid charging or battery management to keep everything within 15-20 deg C when ambient temperature is 20 is harder than it looks.

Jonny Hart wrote:Fair comment but getting the pitchforks out every time there is a EV post is getting tiresome.

And there are those that get the "pitchforks out" in defence of EV conversions too, which is equally tiresome, wouldn't you say?

Pitch forkers and lovers, 2 hardened points of view will always spark a discussion, and one view will bore the other.

EV will happen generally, clean air in the school runs and high street will be wanted and to hell with the consequences 1/2 way round the world.

most will not know about batteries except you need them.

When fossil fuels become hard to find it will be like the tanker driver crisis a few months back for those who need it.
Electric is always there, just as it always has been for over 100 years. (it is hoped)

The car industry globally has made its decisions, changing everything to EV/hybrid, no going back now.
Yes, tech will advance really quickly and by 2030 I imagine (nobody knows) things will be very positive and will continue to improve on factors dear to us all.
Availability
Charge time
Range
Cost
(maybe) the environment.

With the weight behind all that seeing hydrogen coming in to the forecourt seems unlikely.

Maybe a HydroEV will be the next hot combo?

I don't see anyone being pro EV conversion in this discussion. I'm Pro EV for day to day commuting and travel yes, but changing a power plant from ICE to EV now doesn't make sense in a car that I've bought because it's a Flat 6 NA 911. I've got a Taycan due to be delivered in 3 months so I'm obviously Pro EV but as my daily. As I've said already, in 20 years time "if" there was no choice then I'd change the engine to electric to still enjoy driving the car. But hopefully if my plans go the way I want them to I'd have been retired for a few years in 20 years so I may have to start to calculate that cost in now. I'd rather not. I quite like the idea of being the old dude with the noisy smelly 911

I'm there already!

I quite like the idea of being the old dude with the noisy smelly 911

911hillclimber wrote:I'm there already!

I quite like the idea of being the old dude with the noisy smelly 911

my aspiration

911hillclimber wrote:I'm there already!

I quite like the idea of being the noisy smelly old dude with the 911

Sorted that for you Graham

I'm rather hoping that there will be good EV sports cars for us and not just the expensive ones at the Taycan end of the market and beyond.

Would I want to convert a classic to electric? Not sure really, feels unlikely, but it might be fun. Who's driven any to let us know? Jonny?

Much of this is very depressing! Yes EV's will be significant as general transport BUT the current state of the technology means until it's done over 76K km EV's are less 'climate friendly' than petrol cars (see the lifecycle assessment by Polestar).

Huge strides are being made in both synthetic fuels and Hydrogen (JCB have a prototype 'diesel' engine running on hydrogen).

The big problem is governments and how they legislate - which dictates what the manufactures can do, and lets be clear they're not that keen on private transport anyway!

For the next 20 years at least EV's alone cannot meet the transport needs of this or most countries.

Visit the Historical Classic Vehicle Association at: https://www.hcva.co.uk. Lots of optimism and useful stuff.

I've driven EV's, I've also got a fridge - both are useful in the right context but I can't get passionate about either, I guess others can.

This has been a bit of a rambling post but both sides need to recognise the validity of the other, not get out the pichforks! Above all don't rely on social media (or even the BBC) for a clear and honest view - do your own research, develop your own prejudice!

At the minute I find myself wanting a EV for a daily, loving the Taycan and Audi E-tron GT and can’t afford, don’t want a shopping car (208, Corsa or Honda E) but think a EV conversion on a Boxster/cayman/996/997 would totally fit the bill.)
A conversion isn’t cheap, even with large elements of DIY, with a battery pack distorting the costs.
I wouldn’t convert valuable classic but might consider an electric Imp but realistically now is not the time for me to do this. I’ll wait ‘til the parts availability creeps up and costs start to come down, and then I’ll give a DIY conversion a go. In the mean time I’ll watch Moggy , Zero EV et. al. doing a great job innovating in an exciting new market.

Sorry, I want my fun now.

Here's my boring car:

300HP. 50/50 Weight Distribution. Same weight as 3.2 Carrera. 911 Suspension/brakes. Power steering. Power Brakes (Tesla).





Number plates came through last week - a couple of minor jobs then on the road!