Just a thought...

[jb]

Of course you could just accept that it is a lovely old racing car and just enjoy the opportunity to blast it up a closed road every so often and meet up with friends in nice surroundings. After all there are countless other specials of one sort or another that do the hillclimbs and are not necessarily the fastest in their class but still provide a lot of spectacle and fun.

[defianty]

Of course you could just accept that it is a lovely old racing car and just enjoy the opportunity to blast it up a closed road every so often and meet up with friends in nice surroundings. After all there are countless other specials of one sort or another that do the hillclimbs and are not necessarily the fastest in their class but still provide a lot of spectacle and fun.

That sounds perfect to me jb.

[jwhillracer]

Of course you could just accept that it is a lovely old racing car and just enjoy the opportunity to blast it up a closed road every so often and meet up with friends in nice surroundings. After all there are countless other specials of one sort or another that do the hillclimbs and are not necessarily the fastest in their class but still provide a lot of spectacle and fun.

+1
It's a beautiful car as it is Graham, drive it and enjoy it. If you want something more modern, faster, sexier, (soul-less??), then you will not have any trouble selling it as is for someone else to enjoy, and buy something which fits the bill.

Bear in mind that by the time you get everything up to the standard that you want again, you are going to be another 2 or 3 seasons down the road, and you'll have had umpteen duff meetings, mechanical maladies, thrown it against the garage wall, cried and worked your fingers to the bone, when you could have just jumped into your pretty blue car, driven the wheels off it, smiled from ear to ear, and kept a load of spectators very happy with the sight and sound of the Porsche-Lola.

But then, I'm a silly old fart who has kept driving the same old 911 for 30+ years, and still smile every time I get into it!

JW

[DeRRis]

These guys sell chrashed Porsches.

http://www.targetcrashcars.eu/

[dean1057]

These guys also sell and break crashed Porsches.
https://www.facebook.com/Porsche-Heaven ... 405365392/

[majordad]

My 993 Cup RSR uses a 964 engine. 3.8 with motec and I|TBs gives 365bhp at 8000 rpm. Fit one of these and it wont be slow.

[imghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YutQ6yFkRHzu5RSNs_PnOWO7hg1sEAuMdIwqlTk86yFJuhUlIDPbSgQv5xy6oiVj0ultc2D9BVcw1ia-mY5WqGEOnh2GKj4HZUSgDO9HM3L2Gp4t9HkADZA37O2KsGfsghCMtGEXs0dQejZr3Fh52mrzZ54Ms1nffbXgfvq_DnvA6aWu8T--AE1yuyVxNh10NVk69pyg9NQXy5L55RsLavBO8jXxld0xbtFwIctj8sCjCoJriOq67t5fnpK3N3e9vqseFY5xUO0o4biwQzCogG_eoXukrxhnKiUx3BpCQAw4FM1xGI6xl7Zcwnv5ah1e3A-RaW09ckn7F0tTdUwrIzLmeVcvlS1S7x2HT7kxHkkdKF3Z4VI8l3uZ3xkpbaNxkSorRzxmfLWrl2OLJo9WJYLqYXe1OSqtICh3wmigO2aYw-3f3LeX6benomFgm2m85JJGl6NEQGZMOUjqaJ8-cjkr64NGYLxNL47L9stDlcDH9ZnzFwuDitlhKlUAy77-VKgnQL4kTy-uqZqJ_9zRMOXeZfhoSR8loZfIH2O5ARdu0tVoRQRZXQDNATSn36q5oCFKgHAvpAJXDLyX-qFBnit5crbkVTr2vlrEyL2qA9OujOa6o04pMQ=w814-h610-no][/img]

[911hillclimber]

Well, didn't expect this question to throw up so many angles.

Now I don't work, ££££ is a consideration, and a balanced approach is needed!

The current engine and box might be worth about £8K (fully rebuilt 3.2, Bainbridge demon tweeked LSD 915). The flat fan is the most glorious part of it that might fit the 964 crankcase.
The PDK box I think is a great idea but iirc it is big and it is heavy, but sure is fast on the changes and gear-change-by-wire sounds good.

Major's engine is way out of reach...

On balance, I guess the best is to leave the old thing as is, some fresh slicks and learn to drive it faster.
If I lost 3 seasons with all the pain I know oh so well in doing these cars then I will be 68 and past it anyway to use the extra poke of another engine.

A final fling would be to rework the strong engine to rev to 7500 as a 3.4/high compression higher lift cam engine.

Now, how do you do that? iirc Nick Moss did something similar to his rally car but a 3.5 I think.

Rods, P&C and cams.
This might give me something to do and be reasonably 'cheap' in comparison.
And I keep the '908' flat fan/ Targa Florio look I always wanted.

[911hillclimber]

Can anyone on here give me a shopping list for a free revving 3.2 or 3.4?

If I keep the cylinders then a set of pistons, but which ones?
Rods and bolts but which, Arrow?
Cams.....911S? (maybe E's are better for my purpose)

Any books to give me a guide line?
Such a re-build would be DIY, I've done 4 911 engines.
It won't be a twin spark, so 3.2 might be best.

Just found this on google, well known UK engine builder:


So, how much does it really cost to get 300hp from a 3.2 engine.....

Full engine rebuild labour £3000
High compression 3.5 piston & cylinder kit £3400
Crankcase machining £300
Cylinder head studs £500
Ported cylinder heads £600
Twin plug conversion £1500
PMO carburettor kit £2500
Camshafts £750
SSI exhaust system £1000
Ignition system £600
Misc bearings, chains, ramps, gaskets, guides, etc £1000
Total cost around £15k.

[rhd racer]

Oh dear Graham - hope I did not start these dark thoughts with my tales at the weekend of enjoying competing in the Boxster more than the 914 because it does things better?!!

In purely Motorsport terms, I can see how going will immediately up the enjoyment levels. As I said, a 100% reliable gear change makes a world of difference to your driving because your focus is in the right place and you are not distracted by wondering what gear you will exit the corner in etc. I agree with JW though, that to develop your car in water cooled way will take too long and also take away a lot of the charm of the car.

I think you under value the engine and box by the way.....

Mr Howells has just fitted a sequential Cup gearbox to his RSR and seems to be enjoying it! Maybe that is an option, especially as you have the flexibility of a tube chassis to accommodate it....

Not an expert on the 3.2, but would have thought that barrels and pistons and cams would give you the sort of driving experience you are after.....

HTH
Wayne

[inaglasshouse]

Hi Graham,
A few ideas to pursue on the piston+ cam front. All the dreaded "booklearning" based on research I've done for my own project, I haven't implemented any of the ideas yet, so take with a large pinch of salt!

Cams:

Some say a 964 cam works well, although at the expense of midrange

Some are fans of the "20/21" profile offered by these folks: http://www.webcamshafts.com . Whether or not it works, it's certainly true that this is intended to be a performance camshaft for a 3.2 engine, so the spec seems to match your situation.

I believe that Tuthill offer custom cams and obviously are not short of competition experience.

Pistons:
Cost / benefit ratio: I've had several people who know things recommend Wossner pistons

Bolts:
http://arp-bolts.com

General: you could do a lot worse than chatting with Fenn Lane Chris. Please ask him to send my alu bumper corners!

Cheers, Richard.

[911hillclimber]

Wayne, fear not, I have had these thoughts for 2 seasons!
I think our conversation certainly helped when the Lola has gone due to me/wife having trailer fatigue or the fun goes out of the car.
I would turn to my 987 Boxster if I still have that and go into another class to make up the numbers.

Inaglasshouse, I know Chris and respect his approach and certainly his knowledge!
That info is very valuable as you can read yourself into a world of confusion.

Nobody mentioned the rods in the engine which I thought were a weak point, certainly the road bolts are thought to be weak due to diameter reduction, so the ARP bolts are a good solution and help on cost.
There seems to be a lot of +/- opinions on using the 964 cams in the stock 3.2 with stock pistons and I shied away from this change 2 years ago as 'not worth the rebuild hassle'.

The need for the 7500 red line ability is to reach the next corner without the need to change gear. Now, this is obviously about the gear change which at times is marvelous and other times a pita and all about getting into 2nd from 1st or 3rd; when you are at max revs in 1st and take 2nd the box will fight back and refuse (noiselessly) to go in. The resistance feels rubbery as if something is bending as much as anything else. 3rd to 4th is like a hot knife through butter.
I should have a chat with mike B to see if a strip is worth it to se if a selector is bent/loose etc.

A 'false' gear change is a run lost in hill climbing as those that do the sport know. On one run off the start line it took 3 stabs to get 2nd from a (2.12 sec) start. The red-mist run up the rest of the hill was rough but still 0.13 off my PB.

Simply changing the gearbox is not easy....I have looked closely at fitting a Subaru 4x4 box converted to a 2 wd and happen to have a very good one in my garage. Kennedy in the USA would have a conversion plate, the clutch is hard, the driveshafts custom, but I know from my hot impresa days that the shift is really good in that box. The real issue is the starter motor/flywheel.
The box from the AUDI A4 is, I think, the same as the first Boxsters and a real possibility, cheap enough to buy one to see directly how it may or may not fit.

As you can see, I am not at all decided what to do, hence this discussion esp as there are real hill climbers here!

[Lightweight_911]

I'd be inclined to look at the gear linkage again before replacing/spending more money on the gearbox ...

[andytat]

Hi Graham.

I fitted a sequential gearbox into a customers track 930 in Singapore
a number of years ago and it was a revelation. I also fitted a flat shift
kit with autoblipper for the downshifts from a motorcycle so once off
the line there was no need to use the clutch. How about you leave
the engine as is and fit a Quaife sequential gearbox. You can specify
the ratios to suit the low revving engine and the gearshift will be as fast
as you can move your hand with no concerns about breaking the box as
your engine doesn't produce the torque of a 3.8l.

As you said, just a thought.

Andy

[911hillclimber]

The gear linkage is quite complex in that it is very adjustable.
It worked well when in Terry's Nomad BUT there is one in-efficiency that has always bugged me and is hard to correct as the car is.
The rod from the in-gated right hand gear lever comes to the gear box mechanism at 45 deg so there is about the same force pushing the gearbox input shift rod as there is a side load on the mechanism.
I have tried in the recent past to get the connecting rod to be far more 'parallel' to the linkage linear movement, more of my effort goes to changing gear than side load.
The one silencer is in the way of this direct path of the rod.
There is enough throw in the 'gate' so that is not an issue, but things are not ideal.

I have tried a copy of the way ultima do their linkage and it was awful and contributed to a lot of grief in the early years of this car.
Maybe the pic below might help in the thinking.
This current set-up is the best the car has been.

This pic is when I was trying to improve on the mechanism, hence the tack welds and the temporay red taped bar to help with the selection of the gears.
On the right you an see the 45 deg angle of the gear lever shaft.

Second pic is of the rough-out of the 'Ultima' copy connection which was awful.

[andytat]

A Quaife sequential will give you a cable shift to the side of the box.
You could even fit a button actuated shift, either air or electric.

Regards Andy