Family car HELP!

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:40 pm

having said that I've always liked these

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/879928.htm

gridgway · Post by **gridgway** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:48 pm

I think Nige and I are actually on different threads...

I was thinking more:

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/ww ... gLetter=03

Hope the linky works. I had some probs with the Ford climate control, so went for just plain A/C for the current galaxy. Reading the whole ad, that one has climate control and is a high spec which'll increase the insurance. I have a base model 1.9Tdi with few bells and whistles.

Graham

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:59 pm

Realistically I think Graham has the only real option on your budget, or go for a VW Shaz which are the same platform as the Galaxy

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:58 pm

in the DDK for sale section = http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23724

gridgway · Post by **gridgway** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:12 pm

Helen wrote:in the DDK for sale section = http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23724

Good spot Helen! May not be as frugal as required, but it's def the right "form-factor".
Graham

smallspeed · Post by **smallspeed** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:58 am

Im very biased, so any opinions expressed below that upset people, too bad! also I dont have any kids so feel free to ignore me, the below information has been gathered from watching others struggle for various reasons

*******************************************

people carriers are a marketing con.. everyone I know with kids has rushed out and brought a people carrier as soon as their second and/or third child was due stating categorically that they "need 7 seats" or "have to have a people carrier as its easier to get kids into because of the height". I even know a guy with 3 teenage kids who brought a cayenne and insisted for 8 or 9 months that they needed the space, blah blah blah, and then got rid because I WAS RIGHT!

He brought my old 545iSE touring and 2yrs on still says "I don't know how we managed before this car" everytime I see him

OK p*ss taking and apologising aside, 7-seater and 5-seater people carriers might seem like a good idea with kids, but..

1.) they have next to no boot space, and what little space they do have is a waste of time as its all in the uppy and acrossly directions.. fine for a picture frame, crap for anything of substantial 3-dimensionality

2.) the only persons i know who regularly uses the 6th/7th seat in their people carrier do so to seperate their TWO children because they always fight if they're sitting next to each other (which to me is more of a parenting issue than a vehicular problem; im sure my mum could fix that one in about 10mins)

One friend insisted they needed 7 seats for their 2 kids (one newborn, one 3yr old), had them installed in their car, then NEVER used them in the 2yrs they had the car. They then went on to buy a fullsize 7-seater people carrier, and removed the back seats and put them in the garage because of point #1 above

3.) they are not economical; my old 545iSE touring with its 4.4 litre 350bhp petrol engine did more MPG than my mates 307SW which had a 2.0 diesel engine, AND the fuel was 10p a litre cheaper!

4.) they do not go/stop/turn as well as a saloon/estate, hence are not safer in my opinion.. I'd rather avoid a crash than survive one

5.) while people carriers high seats are a bonus for getting babies into and out of, they are a pain in the a$s for lifting 3 and 4 year olds into booster seats which they could get into themselves if you were driving a proper car

6.) they are expensive for what they are; for the price of a run of the mill people carrier you could buy a luxury saloon/estate which would cost the same to run and be a 10x nicer experiece for everyone involved

7.) men driving otherwise empty people carriers drive like complete w@nker$, presumably because they feel they have something to prove

8.) women with people carriers see fit to add little warning diamonds to the rear window saying things like "small dude in car" or "little person onboard".. personally I don't care and will not adapt my driving to suit your choice of stickers

Now I've got all that off my chest, my recommendation?!..

Well the E60 touring which I had (and am on the look out for again) is out of your budget by about £1.5 - 2k so, E39 5-series touring in what ever engine/trim variant you see fit.

530i will do 30mpg, 525d will do 45mpg. Ignore the 520i and 520d, they're so slow and use as much fuel as the next size up engines as they're working so hard all the time..

There's enough space in the back to fit a fridge freezer, washing machine and tumble dryer and still see out the back window! They're fast, refined, drive like a dream, the SE's had leather and electric everything as standard, and they're so robust that if there's a nuclear holocaust cockroaches (predicted to be the only living survivors) will be driving around in them because they'll all still work!

gridgway · Post by **gridgway** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:08 am

You are right as you don't have children you are not qualified to comment. Also your views are complete twaddle. You have spouted so much trash I can't even be bothered to star putting you right. I hope you actually know something about the other things you comment on on the internet.

Graham

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:24 am

Main problem is the fact that there are not many saloon/family cars that comfortably take 3 child seat across the back seat. All positions need to 3 point seat belts and securely accomodate a child seat, not all do. I've tried my boys seat in the middle of our Saab 95 and it doesn't secure well enough for piece of mind.

smallspeed · Post by **smallspeed** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:37 am

Interesting..

I thought my views might provoke a response however I assumed it might be more of a back-and-forth discussion (after all you specifically asked for peoples sugestions and comments) than an out of hand dismissal of my carefully laid out points, most of which are from an entirely technical stand-point at least, valid!

In the spirit of "following the herd" and in order that I no longer feel obliged to contribute to this once presumed technical and open discussion, I'd like to revise my original post and sugest you buy a diesel ford galaxy or similar..

I'll go back to work now where my ability to "spout trash" is appreciated

smallspeed · Post by **smallspeed** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:42 am

In response to Nige, the E39 5 series came with 3x iso fix mountings as an option, and the SE (which didn't have sports seats) has 3x 3-point seatbelts across the back and a very flat seat base cushion so child seats do fit in the middle.. The sport has slightly more bucketed seats in the rear so the centre might not be as suitable for a child seat. They all had 3x 3-point rear seatbelts as far as Im aware

Also I believe if you look at a volvo 850 they are the same, and some actually have a child seat/booster built into the centre arm-rest which is NCAP tested

ninetenths · Post by **ninetenths** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:47 am

Smallspeed- I agree with you, I have three kids and one more on the way. Currently Im using a v70, three seats can be a problem - trial and error is required to fit. When number 4 arrives Im intending to get the 4 seat base bolted in the back (shown on 5 gear the other day)

cubist · Post by **cubist** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:56 am

MPV everytime... had five Espaces now over 10 years... 3.0 diesel the best ever. £200 chip. 220bhp. 36+ mpg. 135mph. Halfords roofbox £125. Amazing with enormous tug and unreal wheel spin out of junctions. Masses of space and good toys. Keep it serviced (fixed price) and it'll never break...

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:38 pm

smallspeed wrote:In response to Nige, the E39 5 series came with 3x iso fix mountings as an option, and the SE (which didn't have sports seats) has 3x 3-point seatbelts across the back and a very flat seat base cushion so child seats do fit in the middle.. The sport has slightly more bucketed seats in the rear so the centre might not be as suitable for a child seat. They all had 3x 3-point rear seatbelts as far as Im aware

Also I believe if you look at a volvo 850 they are the same, and some actually have a child seat/booster built into the centre arm-rest which is NCAP tested

Yes in theory they do offer 3 abreast, but in practice it isn't always the best solution. Practicality is the keyword and I don't think you get with anything but an MPV or 4x4

Bewildebeest · Post by **Bewildebeest** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:00 pm

Chill chaps !! On a forum you miss the subtleties of conversation - eye contact, tone of voice etc implying tongue in cheek, irony whatever which help to stop exchanges like the one above.
Sermon over. (Yes I probably am an old fart)

Coincidentally have a look at a current and very heated thread on 914world slagging off/supporting Automobile Atlanta. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=93025
Hopefully we never get that bad.
FWIW if you go the MPV route we have a Fiat Ulysse (Pug 806, Cit Synergie) and I can't praise it highly enough. It's not just the number of seats but the flexibility to be a van or half van/half mpv as well. Before the facelift in 2002 (I think) the rear 5 seats can be swapped round to any position which is a real plus if your kids like safari parks - travel with the seats in the middle row and the other 3 left in the garage. When you get there move all the seats into the back row (It works with our 2 - not quite so good if you've got 3) and then the kids can run around in the back for the best view of the wildlife. (And yes they do put their belts back on before we leave). If you are travelling/camping with 2 or 3 kids there is endless space in the back and although we don't use 6 or 7 seats every day I'm sure we all have mothers in law and your kids will acquire friends so when you need those seats they are vital.

Other good points are the sliding doors which are great for kids and Tesco's car park, the high seating position helps you avoid accidents (ref someone above) and you can get an 02 plate for well under your budget. It's comfy, it tows well and its well specced. The post 02 models are not as good - crappy trim and less adaptable seating. Plus the most Micky Mouse clocks you ever saw outside Toys-R-Us.

cubist · Post by **cubist** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:12 pm

ninetenths wrote:When number 4 arrives Im intending to get the 4 seat base bolted in the back (shown on 5 gear the other day)

Don't do it. I was sent press shots of estate cars with load space childseats after rearending... not pretty and not where i'd want my kids even in a Volvo. Admittedly the Volvo would fare best but leave the rearspace for Antique clocks and garden waste not treasured possesions

I don't think we're into heated debate territory yet, but after owning T5s and fast Espacii i'll always go for the MPV option. It suits my need for a van with leather that doesn't leave my back in knots after a few hundred miles...