DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Gary... your the BLOODY MAN!!!!

This is a top thread and will definatly be saved

I have to tip my Hat to Tim aswell as he is a vetren of this tech with his Maserati

Now imagine MS on my T4 Bug engine and also on my Mustang!!!!!!

Also Imagine twin pluggin' your high compression 911 motor with this stuff.

I just have to gain some more knowledge as I do get lost by all the electrickery talk at times.

Alam

impmad2000 wrote:If there's enough interest, I can see about a DDK group buy.
I'm in the electronics industry, know people who'd be happy to solder them together (trained to full Mil spec soldering techniques) ... I know that the Imp club did similar, and you can really get the price down for this parts. Any thoughts ?
Tim

Id also be up for this if we can get a resonable discount.

Steve

No Mick definitely not, what you say I get the 2.4T up and running on MS then I'll do you a swap for the old banger 2.7 unit

Er, let me think about this.......

Glad to see you are considering it Mick

Update: Everything is now bolted down... no excuses left. I may have to drive it tonight!!

I'll be taking my distributor cap with me though!

You gotta drive it tonight......

I can't wait any longer!

Well?

WELL

C'mon Gary.....

Morning All,

Well.... I went out, drove round, came back.... No RAC involved, which has to be a first for me

Not all perfect though, it is running on 5 or at best 5 1/2, so I suspect one of my HT lead conversions is arcing out. Also the idle speed originally was something like 1150rpm, due to various leaks in the carb spindles, and at this point in the advance curve it jumps from 10 to 35 degrees. which seems excessive and immediately pulls the idle up to 2000rpm so it has no hope of coming back down.

So next steps are to fix the misfire, which should be straightforward, and then take another look at the advance curve.

Not too bad for a first go

Excellent work, just get it running is a big achievement. Have you got a solution for the air filters on those throttle bodies? How difficult was it to map the advance curves etc is it all fairly straight forward in the software? I’ve just purchased some MFI throttle bodies to be bored out for my MS project so im eagerly watching how you get on with your tuning.

Steve

Great news Gary

Well done...... only a bit of 'fiddling' to do now eh?

Thanks both

Steve, I plan to use the original airbox and filter to maintan a decent plenum volume and also give me somewhere to pick up a stable inlet air temperature reading.

I'll take and post some pictures tonight, but let's see if this makes any sense

I've had some aluminium rings made that are a tight fit around the top of the throttle bodies. Into these I will tap two M5 holes to match the original Zenith trumpets from the top of the carb. Then once in place a quick run round with the carbide burr will lose the 2mm mismatch between the Triumph throttle bodies and the Zenith trumpets. The tricky bit is that I plan to cut the bases from the Zenith steel airboxes and make a new plate that matches the spacing of the Triumph throttles, then TIG around the edge... That's the plan anyway!!!

This should keep the installation looking fairly stock, save for the lack of a coil and distributor

1972_911t wrote: How difficult was it to map the advance curves etc is it all fairly straight forward in the software? ....... so im eagerly watching how you get on with your tuning.

I fitted and tuned (fuel only) MS into a maserati Bi turbo. Tuning to a driveable point took me about 1/2 an hour (and this was with a turbo!)
The tuning software is really easy. I just popped the laptop on the passenger seat and went for a drive (I'd recommend a tuning buddy to help you do this though) and basically transition across the map as many times as you can. A spot moves aropund the map grid (sort of "You are here"!) and you follow this around with the cursor to the bins you need to tweak. A long uphill section on your test route helps
Different throttle openings, more or less engine load etc, monitor the O2 and tweak the RPM vs MAP bins up and down to suit. I was just using a std narrow band O2, and keeping the hard accel settings nicely rich, so as not to lean out on max boost. Fuel consumption was no worse than the carb, and driveability was transformed. You could feel any holes, and just tweak them out as drove. As the map can be shown as a spiders web, any "spikes" or "holes" stand out.
Warm up settings are harder to do, 'cos you only get one shot.
Accel enrichments can follow once you have the basic map. Iginition ? I don't see that this should be any harder...
I figured that I'd get to a driveable state, and then go visit a rolling road. But I never got that far as I sold the car and bought a 911
Cheers
Tim

This graph shows part of the download from the MS ECU whilst the engine was 'idling' (a touch fast!) sitting in the garage following the first start up, it's stone cold by the way only having run for just over a minute at idle.



I did a couple of tentative blips just so I could study the relationship between MAP / Advance / Idle speed. MAP is now being picked up from the auxilary enrichment ports on one carb, this needs to be on all 6 ports for a more balanced reading, but I couldn't get my blanking plugs out! Good stuff this Loctite... I'll try harder tonight and maybe I'll try a fuel filter in line damper to even things out a little.

Prior to my first blip there was a strong misfire (around 85 seconds in) which you can see dropped the RPM and briefly allowed the MAP to increase. You can see that prior to this first blip the idle was more stable. It may be that the partial misfire became more obvious at this point giving the variation in idle speed seen after the blip.

Studying the graphs in detail you can see that the engine rpm drops during this 'hunting' are absolutely co-incident (withing the sampling rate of the ECU) with the spark advance reducing, and the MAP increase following around 0.25s later. This maybe the misfire, and the spark advance is just following the RPM drop, cause or effect? You decide....

Bottom line is I need to get the air and fuel reduced to get a idle below 1000rpm or the whole thing is meaningless as I'm out of the idle portion of the advance curve. See below.



More tinkering required methinks.

Looks like you're going to have to tinker with my carb setting - Go on then....
Tim

Fantastic stuff - the fact that I pretty much don't understand anything in this thread makes it all the more rivetting!

Cheers Tim

Haven't touched it yet Time to wind in those idle screws and see what happens