1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

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neilbardsley
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by neilbardsley »

Love your work and workshop. If you can't get a 911 go 1 better and get a 912?

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yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

@hot66

I'm in the Tasman region, Motueka being the closest town.

@hugo 356

Not set on a name yet - but I usually refer to it as the 'imp 911' - which is what it will be - a baby 911 :)

You are not the first to suggest Gimp btw :lol: - in fact its kind of a derogatory name often used by some folks when referring to Hillman imps (usually followed by their pub chat fuelled expertise about how Imps always blow their head gaskets and how the handling is improved with a bag of cement in the front luggage compartment :?

@911 hillclimber

Yeah the torque will be ample. I think the stock rev limit on a GW 1500 is set at 6000. Probably not much point going beyond that with stock cams although I have read that one modification for improved performance on these bikes was to alter the ignition timing- they can do with a bit more advance in places. I'll have full control over that with my ECU and it might allow it gain a little more when taking the revs a bit further. I suspect the single valve springs will set a mechanical limit. I'd love to find or import a spare set of heads with cams and have a play in the future- if this conversion works out ok.

@Mistralz Hello there!!! :)

@neilbardsley

I'd really only ever want the sound of a flat six or a V6... my other favourite engine configuration. A few years ago I fitted a Mazda V6 into a Vauxhall Viva HB and it sounded beautiful at 7500rpm! ... (this Imp came along after I sold that Viva on)

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impmad2000
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by impmad2000 »

Looks an interesting project. I too have an affinity for the imp, and have owned a few over the years.
A more conventional conversion in the Imp world is the BMW bike engine and there is a company making a conversion for the imp transmission. The engine even sounds quite Imp like.
A flat 6 however, could be really interesting.
Std imp ~ 34bhp !
Tim Bennett
RHD Targa 2.2T EFI, Triumph ITB's, EDIS and Megasquirt.
"Old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it"
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yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

Cheers Tim - yep I know all about the bmw k100 conversion. While I was still living in the UK I was scheming things and looking to buy an Imp (my wife had owned one as her first classic)
I was on the Imp forum back then and started talking about the bmw engines. I even measured up my workmates k100 for size and then biught a haynes manual for a k100 so I could study the idea further. Then we moved back to NZ and I concentrated on other things. This is about the time that the fella in Scotland contiued on with the idea and he really did do it justice. He ended up developing the whole conversion package really well. The k100 series of engines are so perfectly suited to Imps!

But they are not a six :)
yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

I thought I'd better add some general 'classic car actually getting used' photos because it does actually get hooned about quite a lot.

For example - I hooned all the way to the oldschool '23 Nats. A huge distance for this little car @ around 5km this year :) Quite handy having the Nats on our doorstep this year. A great weekend of catching up with loads of good mates and checking out some cool cars/eating food/fine ales etc. I didn't actually take many pics of the event full stop let alone the Imp so here's a smattering..

A sports car and a Jag...

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Had a good time racing over the Takaka hill on the way back from the Saturdays cruise to Golden bay with that Jag. I don't think the Jag Six was needing to put in as much effort as my little Datsun 1200 was up the hill :) Good solid fun trashing little engines.

Other O.S cars at the lunchtime stop in the bay...

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On the way back, stopping for the most unlikely car to breakdown, a Corolla - did just that again...

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As well as going to Nats this summer has seen the Imp doing many trips to various beaches in our bay. It makes for a pretty fun and cheap way to get around all the little roads here.

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general lurking...

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Spotted the Bedford CF I played a major part in building a few years ago - the van sits atop a full Falcon running gear and suspension. I never realised quite how similar the paint colour is to my Imp...

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A big change this past year that's been just so good for the car is it having its own garage to reside in. Throughout the hottest days this summer its been out of the sun and kept clean - free of the usual pine pollen we get, then the dust from the yard. Its super dry in there and makes it more of an event to 'take the Imp'.

Plus it just looks so perfect in there :) ....

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The bikes are safe and dry too. Wonderful not having all of that car, bikes and other stuff in the main engineering workshop!

Oh also this summer I spotted the perfect picnic set for the Imp (although possibly a tad too heavy/bulky..)

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So yeah - the car has been used plenty over the summer even though I've not done so much on the flat six and I think this helps me keep enthused about the Imp in general. Its well worthy of a better heart.

So back to that heart. Continuing on from the last post I had the collectors in the shape I wanted and after a bit of careful trimming with the flapdisc I had them fitting close enough that I wasn't going to have to fill any large gaps with filler rod. I took my time welding them, trying to not blow through and they turned out fine...

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With those in place I was able to weld the engine side of V clamps in place. I bolted the engine cross member in place and double checked the clearances. It was still lining up good so on with the welding. Very carefully too, with lots of tacks first because I had read that V clamps can easily warp if the welding is too hot, slow, uneven etc. Luckily I must have been careful enough because they stayed flat and true :)

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Next up is the oil filler placement. I really want to get this in the right spot, not just for the function but the looks. It'll be right there on display, doing its best to upset the symmetry of the horizontally opposed engine. I decided I needed to get another idea of what's on display when the lower half of the engine is 'hidden' behind the rear valance. The top bit of this alloy box section is pretty much where the top of the valance will be (slam panel?)

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The filler will have to come up to the left at a slight angle because there's no way its going to sit in front of the main pulley. I'm not yet set on the height of the filler cap but for now that can wait. There will be plenty of room in that area. I'm still going to use the extra pair of flanges I machined up when I made the filler plug. These will allow me to unbolt the vertical part of the filler tube so I can easily remove the cam belt cover. I also don't really want the tube poking up in the way, waiting to get knocked while I move the engine about the workshop or while fitting it etc

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So yeah- I think I'll machine the front plate to suit the base flange, mount that, weld the lower bits of tube to suit and leave deciding the final height of the top half of the filler tube till later on when the engine is in place :)
Last edited by yoeddynz on Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
jtparr
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by jtparr »

Excellent….keep it coming…so good to see another and different car in a resto thread….
All the best
Jp
1974 2.7 Carrera
(full restoration. now as an RS Touring)
1963 3.8 E Type
( 11 years in the making…………………….)
1952. XK120…the next one ……….……..)
911hillclimber
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by 911hillclimber »

Indeed, loving it all.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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stichill99
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by stichill99 »

These photos take me back 30 years when me and two mates toured NZ. The wettest night of the whole 2 months was in Nelson where 8 inches fell overnight. Are there still as many retro cars on the roads? We met so many old brit cars on the roads as daily drivers but the jap import craze was just getting going. Great photos.
yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

Cheers folks.
@stichill99 - yes there are still plenty of old cars being used as dailies - especially in the south island which is (usually) a lot drier. No road salt and generally mild weather helps old cars. Now you'll find its loads of 80s/early 90s cars kicking about - more value in keeping them as they find their own niche classic status.

Not many hillman imps about now though. I believe mine is the only one used as a daily/or even the only one seen at all in the top of the south. I know of only one other road going example locally but its not used.
911hillclimber
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by 911hillclimber »

We need an up-date!
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
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yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

My efforts recently have been a bit glacial I know...
yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

Since the last update there has been some progress. Its good when I get stuck in on a particular part but often I end up doing a little bit here on one thing and then a bit on something else and find I often finish up without feeling like there's been any real progress. But I think this is just the nature of this sort of build. The hardest parts are done and while I feel like I'm nearing the end of the 'project tunnel' there is still a load of small bits to do.

I think I'll do the white board thing. Write down all the jobs remaining and start sussing out a plan of attack.

Or put the kettle on and watch cat videos on instagram instead.

But hey- progress is progress no matter how small. Plus Hannah is going to leave me alone for 3 weeks while she takes off to the UK to see her family. So apart from having to feed our cat child I'll pretty much be a free man and can spend as much time as I want working on the engine.

Or watching more cat vids and riding my bikes.

Anyway. Oil filler. I drilled holes, tapped holes and mounted the base part in place..

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I cut a 45 degree angle on two bits of tube, welded them and created the horizontal part..

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Then drilled and tapped the flanges for the upright. I have left the final height decision for now. It'll be better to decide on that when the engine is sitting in place. My gut feeling is that I'll have the cap set a lot lower because there's plenty of room to get a oil bottle/funnel in there for filling. I have marked a line on the upright so you can get an idea of where the oil height sits...

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I have a couple of nifty/silly ideas for the filler tube upright and checking the oil level. I'll play around with those ideas later on when the engine is in place and I've completed more of the harder jobs - like driveshafts and gear shift rod etc. It'll be a treat.

Next thing is to finish the top two water pipes that leave the heads. I had already made the front one some time ago and was about to start the rear one yesterday when I spotted an error I had made. The front pipe I had cobbled together and bolted in place..

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Which pushes into the head as such...

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But I discovered when I looked into the hole that the land within the bore only goes in 10mm before it opens right out. I thought it was a longer land and as it is now the position of my pipe sits when bolted in place has the O-ring sitting right on the very edge - not in the middle. You can see where the factory pipes placed the O-ring in the middle with a visible mark evident here...

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I could easily move the bracket or weld up and re-drill the hole. Its only out by 3mm. But I'm not very happy with the look of the pipe - which I had made up out of bits of the thin old steel pipes. It's quite visible right there on display on the top of the engine even when the inlet and alternator are plonked in place..

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Potential corrosion points too. I was going to paint them black but I think I'll make new stainless ones - easy now I have some proper stainless bends.

Another thing I had done to the engine a while back was to cut a load of the castings down, including removal of most the original engine mounts. It really cleaned the look of the engine up. Last night I realised I could removed some more ugly. The little tube fittings left over from the exhaust air injection emissions system. You can see them here next to the inlet ports..

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They pull out, sealed by o-rings.

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The holes left go down through the end of the heads and feed into passage ways that feed into the exhaust ports. None of this system is needed and its just extra mess.

I have a couple of ideas on how I could seal up the holes neatly. One idea involves tapping out the holes with a suitable tap and screwing in some bungs and this meant opening up the magical workshop portal...

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into the world of stuff that I really don't like to have out cluttering up the workshop..

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I have this old barry spec set of little drawers that my uncle gave me filled with all sorts of specialist taps...

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This one, a BSB (British standard brass) looks ideal.

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But before I start making more mess with taps and machining up plugs I have another idea that will probably turn out neater.

Speaking of trying to make things neater. The original paint on the engine is pretty shot. I was thinking of getting it vapour blasted but I reckon the bare alloy finish left will just end up flashing off with corrosion in time - especially in the Imp where the low pressure zone tends to pull dust and moisture in over the rear mounted engine.

Plus I'm a bit wary about the idea of anyone going near the engine with blasting equipment, leaving sand everywhere.

I think painting the block might be a better idea. A light grey similar to the original colour.

More to think about anyway.
911hillclimber
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by 911hillclimber »

BSB?
Never ever heard about a specialist thread for brass, every day is a school day!
With 3 whole weeks of freedom, expecting a LOT more updates!
lol.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

I'm going to do my best to not get lured away from this project - that's for sure.
yoeddynz
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Re: 1965 Hillman Imp soon with flat six from a Honda

Post by yoeddynz »

I'm back!..
I'm still chipping away at the small jobs. Like most of NZ its been pretty wet outside recently which makes being stuck in the workshop even more cosy. I took this pic the other day. My cosy setup. Drilling and milling jobs are the warmest right now :)

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Hence I spent a bit of time staying warm and making some of the big chunks of alloy lighter where I can. Starting with the rear plate..

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Then the sump plate...

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To aid the retention of the sealant I machined in some grooves between the bolt holes on both the plates. I'll be using good quality 3 bond sealant but everything helps.

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So apart from drilling and tapping a drain hole (suitable plug ordered) and making some anti-windage sheet metal bits the bottom end is finished.

Oh I also lopped off the remaining unused original engine mounts - bit more weight lost :)

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Heat management time. To keep the cam cover seals from the radiant heat off the manifolds I needed some shields. I have had a basic design in my mind for ages but keep ignoring the fact it had to be done because not the most exciting job. First off was to make some brackets to mount the shields to. A bit of 1.5mm stainless and some marking out. drilling and shaping..

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A fold..

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Now I had to do a second fold to form a tight Z shape. But my folder won't allow such close folds and I really want these to be neat, one piece items. So I made a teeny tiny press brake. Milled a block of steel out...

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Milled a bit of plate to suit...

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Welded it to another bit of plate and welded a bit of pipe atop that and pressed away. (I really am super happy I built this press !! )

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Now I had the tight folded Z shaped brackets I wanted..

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Tidied up..

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Fitted in place...

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I then cut some 0.9mm thick stainless shields to suit. I think I can go thinner. Not happy with the weight of them...

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Remembered I have had a bit of titanium sheet kicking about since I was a teenager - my sisters old airforce boyfriend obtained it from from the airbase and i was going to use it to make a cycle bottle cage or something - when titanium anything on a bike was super cool. But I never used it.

Its lighter, but not by much and too small in size anyway. But now I'll just have to think of something silly I can utilise it on in this build - just for laughs/bragging rights :)

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So I'll probably get a bit of 0.5mm SS at some point for the shields. But for now I have at least got something to deflect the heat.

They bolt to the brackets and will have some sort of heat resistant phenolic spacers to help prevent heat soak. Bolts were tigged in place..

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Shield in place...

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Next up was the pipework as mentioned in the last post. I cut the old one up and carefully welded its shaped end to some stainless pipe. Not super pretty but happy as the OE pipe was less than a 1mm thick so it tested my skills.

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Then I started building the pipework in bits...

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I got as far as there and had to stop because not enough bends to complete the path I wanted the pipes to go in - I had used two bends for the exit from the other head. More bends are on their way from China as I type.

Moving on to the next job I'd been putting off which was to make a half moon trigger/phase wheel for the cam angle sensor. I had already made a bracket to suit the Peugeot 307 hall sensor and knew the diameter I needed to start with. I rummaged about the steel racks and found a suitable piece of 3mm thick plate. Plasma cut a disc from it...

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Then into the lathe where it got a big hole sawed out from its middle. Much quicker than drilling and boring...

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Then bored out to final size - the process of which created a nice pretty lathe snake which came out of the lathes spindle...

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I carefully marked things out, drilled some holes and mounted the plate to the cam wheel. Note my lovely warm workshop/homeless person gloves.

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The bolts will be changed for countersunk items - the dome headed ones protruding just touched the reinforcing ribs within the cambelt cover..

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The camcovers are well overbuilt and wont be in danger of getting hit in the back of a car like they could on a motorbike anyway so in an effort to make sure there's plenty of clearance I milled the ribs down..

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I'll mill the slots out to suit on the trigger wheel and will add the remaining bolts (just in case 3 wasn't enough). It'll have half of its circumference machined down, with a corresponding amount in weight removed from the other side just to make some sort of effort to keep it fairly balanced.

I bench tested the Peugeot sensor I had picked up from the wreckers - its a dud. Probably what sent the car to the graveyard considering the prices that the local NZ suppliers want for them. A new one is on its way from overseas.

I have also ordered quite a few other little bits. New terminals for my injector plugs and a crimping tool. I'll be ordering other terminals to suit the various plugs that will be adorning the engines injection and ignition system. I want to create a loom without any unnecessary extra joints. I have never used a proper crimping tool as such. I got a set of little stainless tools for dismantling various connectors. Already used them and quite a breeze compared to my old screwdrivers, nails, pliers methods.

I need to suss out a suitable idle control valve. On the Mazda V6 engined Viva I gutted the original Mazda throttle body mounted ICV and machined up a nice little alloy housing to suit its PWM solenoid, so creating a remotely mounted ICV. I'd like to do the same but I don't have any Mazda TBs kicking about and there's also an abundance of cheaply available copies of Bosch remote ICVs available online (with good reviews) so I'll think some more about this bit.

My ignition setup is coming along - big thanks to fletcher from the oldschool forum who is posting me a Mitsubishi GTO V6 ignitor module. I'll most likely get a Jaguar v6 coilpack for the ignitor to..ignite..

So many different brands :)

The sticker list on the side of the completed car will be long.

'This car has been brought to you courtesy of the following' ..

Hillman cars

Honda Goldwing motor

Subaru transmission

Honda civic clutch plate

Subaru clutch disc

Honda civic alternator

Subaru starter motor

Ford Mondeo clutch release

Nissan Micra injectors

Honda crx throttle body

Mitsubishi ignitor

Jaguar ignition coils

KMC bmx oil pump chain

Lego Mandolorian inlet manifold plenum guardians :)
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