Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Ongoing and archived Porsche (and other marques) restoration threads from DDK members

Moderator: Bootsy

User avatar
PeterK
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by PeterK »

Well, another day and better news, so just a quick update.

The 3M compounding stuff arrived, so briefly back to bodywork. Using the froot lid, I tried various combinations of sanding and compounding. Results just in conclude ……
1) Don’t use the 1500 & 2500 grit wet & dry by hand – even though I used a block and thought that I was being light-handed, I’ve got scratches that are far too deep - use the DA sander. I reckon that I’ve caused myself quite a lot of unnecessary work, but all doable now.
2) Don't be timid - I need to go back and use the DA with 2500 grit (and 1500 in several places) for much longer, cleaning lots as I go to ensure that all scratches are out at each stage
3) Compounding is good, but takes ages
4) The froot is shiny after compounding and even shinier after polishing

Image

As I tried different ways (and combinations) of working on different areas of the froot lid, I now need to go over all of it to ensure consistency. I should end up with even more shininess.


And finally, most importantly……..covering the shell is good, but don’t forget to drop the sheet in front of the racks before compounding in the garage :oops:
Image
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
The Garage Bitch
DDK Fanatic
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:37 pm

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by The Garage Bitch »

It says "perfect" on a box or tin behind the froot. Fortunate coincidence or self assessment of the finished job? :lol:
User avatar
PeterK
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by PeterK »

Well, quite a lot done but not so much achieved.

First I distracted myself and spent about 3 hours cleaning the garage. It’s not clean by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s a lot better than it was.

I am still waiting for some Trizact 3000 grit discs to arrive, so decided to play with the electrics some more. Started by thinking about my intended heated front windscreen and how to pick up from the HRW switch. I’d rewired it as per my dismantling but it didn’t look right. Tracing the wires from the wiring diagram, I realised that the only wire from the switch was for the heated mirrors, so a quick hunt was needed to locate the wires to the rear - I found them lurking under the other looms. Strange that my notes of the wiring on the switch didn’t include the actual HRW wires. I tried the rear screen and even though I could hear the relay clicking, I couldn’t get any power to the final connectors, so out with the wiring diagrams again. To cut a long investigation short, the power to the demister relay (via the rear fusebox) comes from the alternator, which is in the loft. Also wired to the alternator is a line to the starter, which in turn has the main power line to the battery. While I’m playing testing, I’ve also not got the main battery lead connected (and the earth is a small gauge wire with a small rating fuse). Anyway, connecting the rear 14-way connector and putting power to the alternator connection had everything working as it should. It was a useful exercise, as I found the main alternator to 14-way connector wire (red) was only connected by a single strand or so. So, cut the last strand, drill out the remains from the female connector, add wire, solder in place and refit.

Further work on wiring the front heated screen was stopped by waiting for relays & fuses to arrive (as is alarm fitment), so I tightened up the light switch and promptly blew my safety fuse (earth lead to the battery). As per a quick request for info thread I posted, the main body of the light switch became live as soon as the switch was turned on. Also, sometimes the switch didn’t want to press off very smoothly, so clearly something was amiss with the switch. At north of £500 for a new one and around £200 for a used one (if you can find one), that was not good news. So, with brave pants on, I drilled out the rivets holding the light switch together.

The switch is actually very simple in design, although less simple in what it needs to do.
Image
A detent operates on the end (inside) of the main stem of the switch. The detent is a small ball bearing, pressed by a spring and held in place by a small brass plate that is riveted in place. Or rather if it had been rivetted in place, the plate would have held the detent. What I found was the rivet remains, a slightly bent plate and 2 halves of the spring floating around. I assume that the rivet failed, the spring came out and got broken by the switch being pulled and pushed.

Bodging being the mother of invention, or something like that, I broke a biro and liberated the spring. Smart eh - well not smart enough really, as although I could shorten it, it was a smidgen too wide.
Image

I stretched the long part of the spring and it seems to be doing just fine. Unfortunately the hollow rivet was damaged, so I thought that I would fit the remains from the inside and use an Ali rivet to grab it from the outside. Strike 2, as my smallest rivet was too big. Simples, just file down the diameter and Bob’s your mother’s live in lover. Well Strike 3, by the time it was small enough to fit, the rivet has so little material left, it would never have worked. I couldn’t rivet from the inside, as there’s not enough room to get the rivet gun in there.

The only place I can find hollow rivets was China, with 6 weeks delivery, so bodge 2 will be to use a 2.5mm brass machine screw & nut. That should be here next week, so work stopped there as well. Also ordered some 3mm brass machine screws for the two rivets that hold the switch together.



Manning up, I headed out to the garage to do some more colour sanding today. I’m still waiting for the trizact, but there’s nothing to stop me from getting all the panels flatted with 2500 grit. Well, not if you exclude procrastination anyway. I was soon distracted into tidying the garage, but eventually I could put it off no more, so out came sanding implements. When I say out, I mean out – I set my stand up outside of the garage, as I don’t want to have to clean the flying mess off everything again.

I did the froot, and was then faced with the strip around the edges where I had put 9mm fine line tape to ensure I didn’t burn through the edges. More brave pants' time, and I broke out the blocks and paper. I’d run out of 2500 grit so laid into the edges with some 2000. Whereas I had big issues with the 2500, the 2000 was great, and I was really pleased with how it turned out.

Image

Well I was, until I did ‘just one more bit’ and failed to watch both ends of the block
Image

Hey ho, one panel to repaint.

In better news, I successfully flatted both doors and front wings, including removing the runs from the wheel arch of one wing. Just need to give the rear wings a seeing to now, then trizact and cutting compound all over.
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
User avatar
PeterK
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by PeterK »

No re-painting of froot, but lots of procrastination. Had a few days off, including going sailing for the first time since the end of January :bounce: . Just a day with other instructors this time, deciding & agreeing how we can all be CV-19 safe, ahead of my first post lockdown paid gig this weekend. Due to restrictions on how many households, etc, I’ve only got 2 students on board, neither of whom has been sailing before, so I guess that I’ll be busy.

I gave myself (another) stern talking to, as despite my best hopes the polishing is not doing itself, and set to on the engine lid, practising with my new Trizact 3000 grit paper. Getting bold as I knew that I had to repaint the froot anyway, I used 2500 on the DA, sometimes going back to 1500 and more 2500 in places, before the Trizact. Came out lovely and flat, with no evidence of scratches at all, although I haven’t used compound yet and the polished surface is never kind when it comes to hiding blemishes and scratches. However, looking good at the moment.

Emboldened, I re-did the front scuttle and attacked the rear wings.
Image
Generally well pleased, although a few ‘holes’, where either there was grease spots or dirt specks have been pulled out during colour sanding. Will probably try dropping some paint on and see whether it sticks when I sand again. Don't really want to paint them for a third time, but then don't want to regret not spending an extra week and it bugging me forever.

Didn’t learn my lesson about protecting things though :oops: . I plan to pull the shell out of the garage and mask off properly before compounding, but I decided to do the colour sanding in the garage. I know that I was wet sanding with the DA, but it didn’t make that much mess when I did the engine lid, so what could possibly go wrong. Well, that train of thought for a start – while doing the rear wings, I managed to spray / splash the garage door, my face, down my neck and even a little inside the car.

Having started with the engine lid and then done the scuttle and one wing, I was actually starting to enjoy the colour sanding (I’m not sound of mind, I know), so ended up doing both rear wings. I then treated myself to some relaxing wiring and re-fused my panel lights.

Firstly I fitted the mirror changeover switch, which due to where I fitted it in the end, required me to undo the loom I have previously made, reroute cables, rebind and refit. However, the switch is now fitted and working. I had previously (and temporarily) used a fuse holder that I had lying around to do the ‘GeorgeK’ mod to add a fuse into the panel light wiring, but it needed wrapping in insulating tape to avoid shorting against anything. Having got a new stock of waterproof fuse holders, I swapped it out.
Image


This morning the mail-person (see how PC I can be if I try) delivered my new brass machine screws and nuts, so more wiring.

I could maybe shorten the screws slightly, but they are unseen and I can now easily re-open the light switch if I ever have an issue again. Anyway, all done and feeling georgeous in operation. A few £’00s save there.
Image
Image

Wiring re-attached
Image

Tested and then hazard and light switches refitted.
Image

Getting the cables that run to the door switches back into place will not be remembered as the easiest job I’ve ever done, but done they are. I’ve introduced a 3-way connector on each side, so that the alarm wiring can be joined neatly.

And on the topic of alarms, I opened the box and checked what I’ve got to fit. Scary, but not half as bad as I expected. The ends of all the cables are conveniently marked with coloured sleeves, although for security I shall remove these label sleeves before final termination. Although most of the alarm wiring is black cable, I intend to run as much as I can through sleeving, so it won’t be obviously ‘after-market’ wiring if some low life has a rummage.
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
jjeffries
DDK slapper chatter
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:23 pm

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by jjeffries »

So you have to repaint the whole panel or can you spot repair that corner ... same batch of paint, so no matching worries?

Great tenacity you've demonstrated will result in a very special car. John
User avatar
PeterK
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by PeterK »

Same can of paint, but I’d always understood that you can’t spot 2k, unlike cellulose.

If I repaint just one rear quarter, then I’d have a ‘blend’ somewhere, most likely on the rear scuttle under the rear screen (targa). So last time, I did from the bottom of one A pillar, along the sill, rear quarter including B post, across the rear scuttle and then repeated on the other side, back to the bottom of the other A pillar.
I suppose I have nothing to loose by trying a touch more sanding, hoping for deep enough paint to cope. If I burn through, then try to spot repair, and if that fails respray.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
Phill

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by Phill »

Great job with the switch Peter. It would be good if you could create a book marked thread giving detail about how you did this as I think a lot of people will have the same issue at some point.
jjeffries
DDK slapper chatter
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:23 pm

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by jjeffries »

Peter, I'm no pro. While I realize your single stage urethane is catalyzed, I'm wondering if, while it's still relatively fresh, a blend could be attempted with reasonable odds of success and no ill-effects. I've seen a product used (special solvent) that you spray around the edge of your blend zone which (temporarily) chemically softens the existing paint a bit, perhaps analogous to opening its pores? You blend in with light coats of paint then let it set up as per usual, and color (colour) sand and buff.

This may be heresy and even seen as a bodge, and it may also be just as difficult as repainting the whole panel. I do believe it can make for a neat save when time is tight** but that's not what your project is all about; the true pros on here can comment as they see fit.

(As in, customer is on their way to pick up a car you're finishing up when you have that oh $hit moment and color sand through the finish, and you need a solution right now).

The more I write here the deeper I realize I'm going towards sleazy trade practices ... apologies!

Best, John
User avatar
PeterK
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by PeterK »

Thanks John
I have a tin of ’fade out thinners’ and may try what you suggest, just to see what happens.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
User avatar
PeterK
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by PeterK »

Well, a fortnight has passed but we’re back. Got a bit down with the painting and so easily distracted now that sailing is happening again, plus some work, family visits, etc got prioritised above Benny (the Beluga – white whale tail 8) )

In the meantime, my bottom end has been balanced (insert childish gag of choice). All good there, except I left the original big end bolts and nuts on the conrods, just in case the machine shop needed to torque them up. I gave them the bag of genuine Porsche bolts and nuts for when they balanced the rods. Unfortunately the bags of bolts and nuts have not been opened. Not sure how variable the weight of big end bolts is, but if the machine shop balance to crank & rods to within 0.1g, then I guess that I’ll have to compare new with old, and maybe tweak some.

Anyway, back at base, the painting wasn’t resolving itself, so I chained the black dog to the doorway, had a chat with myself and realised that the summer is now flying past. I had a quick play with the OSR quarter and realised that I would not be happy without repainting it. Checking paint supplies, I also realised that it would be tight painting the froot and the rear quarter, so bought another 5 litres. Although the paint was from the same supplier, mixed to the same paint code, I am not naïve enough to believe that the paint would be exactly the same as last time. I flatted back both rear quarters, the sills, A-posts and front scuttle and resprayed the lot. Before spraying I washed the floor I washed the car, I tack-ragged the panels, I panel wiped them 3 times and tack-ragged again, but I’ve still got some rubbish in the paint. However the rubbish is minor and will easily buff out (I hope), and I don’t believe that there’s anyway that I’m going to improve on the out-of-gun paintwork without hiring a spray booth. So overall, well happy now.
Image
Image
The strange reflections are not defects, just reflections of the tatty plastic sheeting on the roof (‘onest guv’).


Next day I also flatted back and resprayed the doors and froot (repairing the rub-through corners), to be sure all the car was the same shade/colour.
Image

Today I temporarily fitted a front wing and compared tints – now I’m really happy that I took the time to redo the entire shell. The colour match is good, but I can see a subtle difference, so the front wings will also be redone.


Doors off again and time to black them (with thanks to those who have sent me photos of their doors, so I had a clue as to where I needed black)
Here follows gratuitous extra phots, as I haven’t posted any for a while.
Image
Image
Image


Last thing today was to refit the doors. I reamed out the bushes again, to remove any paint over-spray (even though I had masked), added a touch of copperslip and Bob’s your mother’s live in lover
Image

The panel gaps are a tad tighter now with all of that paint, but looking good (even if I do say it myself). Overall, in a good place and looking forward to cracking on and getting more bits refitted.
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
911hillclimber
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 19025
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: West Midlands

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by 911hillclimber »

Whew!
I thought I'd worked hard today....
Really pacing along Peter, as you say, summer is burning off into the distance pdq, I've some (small) painting to do very soon on the bike.

Great read as ever, love the DIY.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
jjeffries
DDK slapper chatter
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:23 pm

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by jjeffries »

Great job, massive amount of work you've been putting in.

John
sladey
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
Posts: 8817
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by sladey »

Nice Job
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
coomo
DDK forever
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:36 pm

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by coomo »

PeterK wrote:Well, another day and better news, so just a quick update.

The 3M compounding stuff arrived, so briefly back to bodywork. Using the froot lid, I tried various combinations of sanding and compounding. Results just in conclude ……
1) Don’t use the 1500 & 2500 grit wet & dry by hand – even though I used a block and thought that I was being light-handed, I’ve got scratches that are far too deep - use the DA sander. I reckon that I’ve caused myself quite a lot of unnecessary work, but all doable now.
2) Don't be timid - I need to go back and use the DA with 2500 grit (and 1500 in several places) for much longer, cleaning lots as I go to ensure that all scratches are out at each stage
3) Compounding is good, but takes ages
4) The froot is shiny after compounding and even shinier after polishing

Image

As I tried different ways (and combinations) of working on different areas of the froot lid, I now need to go over all of it to ensure consistency. I should end up with even more shininess.


And finally, most importantly……..covering the shell is good, but don’t forget to drop the sheet in front of the racks before compounding in the garage :oops:
Image
Not sure If I read this right.If you are getting scratches in fully cured paint, its not the 2500 flatting paper thats causing them.Either the substrate is not flat(has marks) and those imperfections are showing though, as the paint fully cures, or your not keeping the panel clean (plenty of clean water & washing liquid) as you flat it and your introducing rubbish which is causing scratches.Use a rubber block to remove water as you go.You will be able to see if youve flatted enough/removed imperfections.Dont rely on compound to remove imperfections its job is to polish an already perefect surface.
If you are seeing random scratches "appear" as your mopping.Its due to the heat your generating causing the primer to "move about" Its not fully cured.Dont believe tech sheets that tell you its cured in 24 hours (presuming 2k ) I always leave 4/5 days before blocking primer and same again for top coat.That also should negate the chance of burning top coat when you mop it.Great thread.Really well written.
User avatar
PeterK
DDK rules my life!
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm
Location: GU51 - Fleet, Hampshire, UK

Re: Wot, not another '79 Targa resto thread

Post by PeterK »

Thanks for the ongoing interest and support guys.



coomo wrote: Not sure If I read this right.If you are getting scratches in fully cured paint, its not the 2500 flatting paper thats causing them.Either the substrate is not flat(has marks) and those imperfections are showing though, as the paint fully cures, or your not keeping the panel clean (plenty of clean water & washing liquid) as you flat it and your introducing rubbish which is causing scratches.Use a rubber block to remove water as you go.You will be able to see if youve flatted enough/removed imperfections.Dont rely on compound to remove imperfections its job is to polish an already perefect surface.
If you are seeing random scratches "appear" as your mopping.Its due to the heat your generating causing the primer to "move about" Its not fully cured.Dont believe tech sheets that tell you its cured in 24 hours (presuming 2k ) I always leave 4/5 days before blocking primer and same again for top coat.That also should negate the chance of burning top coat when you mop it.Great thread.Really well written.
Thanks Coomo for the suggestions, but pretty sure it was the sandpaper, as when I changed from 2500 to 2000, my issues went away.

I'm using clean water with washing up liquid and the paint had cured for several weeks when I was experiencing issues. Happy with the surface finish now, although I still have to polish a few specks of dust out of the new finishes.
Peter
'79 Targa - restoration now mainly complete & being driven
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59756
Post Reply