tim69s wrote:On top of the extra load for charging EVs, there's the need to start phasing out gas boilers for heating and replacing with electric alternatives. That's going to pose a really big problem for the grid.
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No it isn’t. Have a read of the link I posted.
“ the most demand for electricity we’ve had in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, due to improved energy efficiency such as the installation of solar panels, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16 per cent. Even if the impossible happened and we all switched to EVs overnight, we think demand would only increase by around 10 per cent. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
When I did my self build in 2007, I installed a ground source heat pump. I went through the same ‘naysayer’ kind of stuff that I’m reading here. It uses 800W to run the compressor. That provides all underfloor heating and hot water in a large open plan 4 bed, There is no concept of ‘turning the heating on’ - my house is always 21 degrees and the hot water has never run out.
Sam wrote:i reckons we might just be at the tipping point of realising bigger isn’t better and infinite economic growth is not the answer to human happiness.
What he said
Peter
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Jonny Hart wrote:
No it isn’t. Have a read of the link I posted.
Sorry Jonny, don't want to get into an argument, but 40% of the UK's total energy consumption comes from heating and hot water for buildings, and 85% of that comes from natural gas today. If we are going to meet our climate change obligations we need to switch from gas to cleaner sources and for the most part that will be electricity.
Ground source heat pumps are as you say the most efficient way to do this, but most properties won't be suitable for ground source and will need air source or electric/hydrogen boilers.
This will need to be combined with much higher levels of insulation than exist today, otherwise the demand on the grid will be huge.
The article you quoted was only talking about EV demand and not the domestic switch from gas.
They’re stopping new installations of fossil fuel central heating boilers, not switching off all the existing ones. The change to electric will be gradual and those in the know are confident it will be manageable.
Almost like they were consulted before the decision was made...
It will also utilize mostly air source heat pumps that are much
more efficient than any other form of electric heating and way
more efficient than oil or gas.
Now Porsche less and sad.
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My predictions are centrally heated clothing - much more efficient than heating the whole house, cycling and the return of the horse and cart heralding the demise of next day delivery...
maverick noun
1. an unorthodox or independent-minded person.
2. an unbranded calf or yearling.
Origin mid 19th century: from the name of Samuel A. Maverick (1803–70), a Texas rancher who did not brand his cattle.
For volts to be a Good Thing, it needs to be green itself.
The power stations have to be clean, it is not just about cleaner city air, it is about a clean air planet.
Generating electric from solar, from windmills is poor compared to tidal means to power generators, but I am not aware that this method is being exploited.
Coal is in great use, that needs to stop, how is that going to be replaced by a clean system?
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andytat wrote:It will also utilize mostly air source heat pumps that are much
more efficient than any other form of electric heating and way
more efficient than oil or gas.
I have both types . Ground source in the house and air source in my workshop and another air source in a ‘granny annexe’ for hot water. Why anyone would do anything other than this is a complete mystery to me.
Before you say ‘too expensive’, my Toshiba workshop one was £500 and does AC as well in the summer. Self install in half a day.
Graham, coal is on it's last legs in the UK, we recently ran for more than 2 weeks without any coal generation in the UK at all. During storm Ciara 2 weeks ago 36% of the UK's power came from wind and broke the previous record set in December.
Tidal generation is very much alive in Scotland where they have the strongest flows. Unfortunately it is very expensive to capture due to the harshness of the environment underwater and the minimal maintenance windows. Don't ask how I know about tidal.
Thanks Tim.
My outlook though is about the plant as a whole. Little UK is just that compared to China etc. There are bigger fish than us fouling the place, but good 'we' are ahead of the game.
Some years ago I got 'excited' about a string of articles in Engineering Magazine (maybe 15 years ago) where tidal was discussed to detail, and that Scotland had a very rich future to becoming the power house of the UK. Submersible generators in the Fjords of Scotland, out of sight and with all the technology of the Scottish North Sea industry they were perfectly placed, even to appoint a Minister for this to be commenced.
Anything happen to this?
If the UK can be power independent from other countries and have the infrastructure to sustain it AND be clean, what a great achievement.
We will still breath pollutants from other countries.
If the UK had not 'exported' a lot of it's manufacturing industry to (say) China, we would have a bigger task as a country, and China a smaller one!
The issue for me is the ability for a global response to resolve the growing situation of pollution and Climate Change.
Masses going electric is not a solution unless electricity is cleanly generated.
The engineers will sort it if the politicians and finance areas support them.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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Jonny Hart wrote:
Before you say ‘too expensive’, my Toshiba workshop one was £500 and does AC as well in the summer. Self install in half a day.
Interesting.
For the pump and wall blower bit?
New?
Really?
Where from?
I’m currently working through the plans of my new house with the idea of starting digging in the summer and was wondering whether to run the central heating out to the garage, but maybe a second pump is the answer.
There’s just so much inertia in house building / renovating / property in general.
There’s no financial incentive for large house builders to move the technology on as there’s not enough promotion of the benefits, so not strong demand from customers. Whatever happened to public information films? It therefore doesn’t happen until it becomes law and builders have to do it. It slowly is, but it’s still nowhere near robust enough. When you upgrade or convert a building you can dodge insulating properly by doing a dodgy calculation that shows it’s too expensive to make financial sense. You just show building control that £5k to insulate only saves £200 a year in gas and they say ‘fair enough mate, don’t bother then’.
If they made our building regs prescriptive rather than descriptive the cost and speed of house building and the quality of what is built would transform overnight.
911hillclimber wrote:Thanks Tim.
My outlook though is about the plant as a whole. Little UK is just that compared to China etc. There are bigger fish than us fouling the place, but good 'we' are ahead of the game.
Some years ago I got 'excited' about a string of articles in Engineering Magazine (maybe 15 years ago) where tidal was discussed to detail, and that Scotland had a very rich future to becoming the power house of the UK. Submersible generators in the Fjords of Scotland, out of sight and with all the technology of the Scottish North Sea industry they were perfectly placed, even to appoint a Minister for this to be commenced.
Anything happen to this?
If the UK can be power independent from other countries and have the infrastructure to sustain it AND be clean, what a great achievement.
We will still breath pollutants from other countries.
If the UK had not 'exported' a lot of it's manufacturing industry to (say) China, we would have a bigger task as a country, and China a smaller one!
The issue for me is the ability for a global response to resolve the growing situation of pollution and Climate Change.
Masses going electric is not a solution unless electricity is cleanly generated.
The engineers will sort it if the politicians and finance areas support them.
We give ourselves a pat on the back for reducing our emission. The truth is that emissions of a country do not include the embodied emissions of imported goods. Therefore it is no surprise that the more you import, the less your emissions. This craziness has to stop. Look at the info graphic half way down this page to see how ridiculous this is!
I read the electricity stuff and I think it means we’re less dependant on France for nuclear generated electricity, but Germany also buys electricity from France because of its green idiots and France isn’t doing terribly well and it’s trains and power stations need replacing, or so I’ve heard.
I think most agree that nuclear power is the only sustainable option and that generation four reactors address the problems of previous ones, but I’m not sure how far off it is, only that without storage methods, windmills are less satisfactory.
