Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars.

[Darren C]

Thanks for sharing Berny.
Looks like a Hooper (at my best guess as these square bodies looked so alike with little differentiation between many, many coachbuilders. The exposed hinges, side profile and choice of ironmongery make think it’s 1929 or there-abouts) bodied 6 light limousine on a 20HP chassis (one of the last 20HP before the 20/25. The high scuttle rise after the bonnet is typical as the engine bulkheads in 20’s were taller so the coachwork had to rise steeply).
You’ll enjoy P & A Wood it’s a real big boys toy shop, be sure to take lots of pictures to share.

[Darren C]

I cannot stress enough the number of independent Coachbuilders that were around pre war.
There were 1000’s of Rolls-Royce's built and no two were identical.

The story I’m telling here is of just one and the man behind them, as they say on the BBC….other Coachbuilders are available, and they were prolific.

As an informative comparison to just giving you my opinion; here is a great source of information written by Colin Hughes & others. You are free to use the dropbox on the left.
There is a vast amount of information here and please allow yourself time before you click on the link.

https://www.rrec.org.uk/Cars/Coachwork/ ... Others.php

My story is about the man that shaped Rolls Royce, if you will allow me, I’ll continue.

[Darren C]

“Now then….would you like to see some of my Gurney Nutting specials?” John asked with a smile and a sparkle in his eye.

Up to now I have waxed lyrically about the catalogue cars for H.R.Owen, these were the staple of Gurney Nutting.
The interesting stuff are the really “one off” body designs that were created by John. In private sittings with the client a design brief was obtained and then drawings were created for approval.

“Yes please” was my reply.
“Mostly Maharaja designs, these were” he said passing me drawings one after another after another.
“Theres some more over here”. John pointed up to a boxed in beam across his cottage ceiling where more exquisite paintings hung.
“This one has a special frame for hanging and transporting Tigers, with large hunting lamps. This one had compartments for many rifles”
The designs were amazing.
“They weren’t all Rolls-Royce you know, most were, but there all sorts of chassis we put our bodies on”
“Wow, theses are fantastic, I’ve never seen anything quite like this”
“You won’t” he said. “Once the cars went over to India we never saw or heard of most of them again”.

The Middle East was the second largest market in the World for Rolls-Royce motorcars after the USA. It’s hard to believe, but most of the cars that went out that way were amazingly lavish as one owner tried to out-do his neighbour.
I always laugh at Alexi Sayle in Raiders of the Lost Ark, the Last Crusade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93GVV3bIJB0

This is how it was, and either the script writer or Mr Sayle (who is a car enthusiast) added a joke that only R-R enthusiasts would get. In the film he refers to the car as a Phantom, yet the car in the movie is a 20/25. He then reels off the specifications of the 25/30HP. (The same as having a 356, calling it a 944 and saying it has a flat 6 engine) The joke is on the Germans as they know not what they have.

A while ago I said that in my opinion John Blatchley was the greatest influence on car design in the 20th century. A very big claim!

When John was restrained by having to be conservative with catalogue designs, he excelled in creating car bodies and styles that were cutting edge, designs that set the trends, designs that others followed, aspired to and copied and copied.

However when he had the freedom with special commissions, he created some of the most elegant and beautify body shapes of all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPpGnfDIGs

These “special” bodies on a multitude of other manufacturers chassis showcase Blatchleys skill style and trademark contributions to the shape, such as the swage lines, trouser crease and curvaceous flowing lines.
Interestingly John called this Duesenberg design the “Speedster” and was designed in 1934.
Standing up in John’s cottage looking up at the paintings hanging before me, here was the Maharaja Duesenberg.
A truly beautiful car that had great influence on young upper coming American car designers.

I hope your beginning to understand the importance of this man.

“There are more here in my drawers” said John, as he pointed over to a very large set of Drawing Office chest of drawers. (The shallow 1 inch deep multiple drawers about A1 size)
“More specials?” I asked.
“Yes”

[shoestring7]

Enjoying this thread immensely Darren, keep it going!

C>

[Tosh]

I do hope these drawings are somewhere safe and being preserved for posterity - preferably so they can be seen by a wider audience at some point.

[Darren C]

Thanks Charles.

Tosh, back in 2005 when I first met John, it was thought that these Gurney Nutting original designs in pencil, pastel & water colour were lost before WWII. The later Blatchley work at R-R & B Motors Crewe is well documented and the complete factory archives are with the RREC & Sir Henry Royce Foundation. (Where I would like to arrange a visit for DDK in the Spring if there is enough interest).
Collectors like John De Campi in the USA had a large collection of period photos of the cars collated from all sorts of sources, but few drawings other than copies of catalogues, which was very informative but doesn’t show evolution and cars that never got made.
As I mentioned earlier, the number of Blatchley “interviews” after walking out the gate of R-R in 1969, you could count on one hand. A tiny few images had been rumoured to exist which was enough to tantalise the enthusiasts, but that was it.
Only very close friends and family (who believe it or not, weren’t that interested) knew John had a big set of Drawing Office draws jam packed, and some.
It was not until a good few years after his death in 2008 and only just recently has a my fellow RREC member Tom Clarke and a very select few had access via the family (I am led to believe, but know a lot are unaccounted for, but that’s a whole new story)

John told me over dinner one day that almost every Gurney Nutting car was photographed in their yard.
“A real mess it was too, so we used to string up old cloth sails, from the docks, to photograph the cars against”

As far as I’m aware these photos were lost in the Blitz, and the earliest photos of the majority of Gurney Nutting cars around (which form De Campi’s collection) come from The Swain Group and were taken in a residential area in the background, setting them apart from John’s account to me using linen cloth. (But now I’ve let that snippet out the bag, who knows what may surface?)
Percy Swain purchased H.R.Owen in 1946 after Harolds death. He continued running the business as H.R.Owen and obviously had a pre-owned sales department. So most of the earliest reference photos of Gurney Nutting bodies and Blatchley designs are Swain group 46 onwards ones.
Ironically in the year 2000, H.R.Owen group purchased Jack Barclay. I’d like to think that after the long standing feud between Harold and Jack, Harold eventually got the last laugh!

Anyways, moving onwards….

Just to clarify what you got from Rolls-Royce & Bentley Motors in Nightingale Road Derby. A Chassis



On the left is the chassis picture as shown in my 1936 handbook for a R-R 25/30, the centre is my Derby Bentley handbook for a 3 ½ litre. Far right may interest you as it’s a Haynes manual for R-R from 1925 to 1939 models from my collection. Published post war in the late 1950’s it was hand typed by John Haynes and came as a small paperback book. It has a good illustration of the first Wraith Chassis a short lived model (due to WWII) that followed the 25/30.

As a small note, My grandmother was the lady at R-R who’s job it was to collect the handbooks from the printers and pack them with every chassis despatched!

Looking at the Chassis you have to remember that the job of the Coachbuilder included all interior seats and upholstery as well as the bodywork, brightwork trim, lighting and ironmongery.

I hope this helps in understanding the true freedom entrusted to the Coachbuilder by R-R & Bentley in providing a completed car to market.

[Darren C]

So picking up where I left off last night…..

John handed me yet another drawing, this time it was in pastel on dark grey almost black paper. It was stunning.

“Is that the Mertzanoff? Wait…..its not quite the same?” I said.
“You have a good eye, it’s a special, using pontoon wings...so elegant, on a Phantom chassis”.

I’ve actually managed to find a photo of this car for you to see. (1934 PII)



The drawings came thick and fast.

“This was another beauty with pontoon wings” John said handing me more.

The closest I can find is this photo of a 1936 Derby 4 1/4 Bentley, although the drawing was a R-R John had originally shown me: in this picture it was built as a Bentley.



“This we called the Airline” he said

Again I’ve managed to find a photo to show the car.



As I recall this went on for a whole afternoon on a particular visit, salivating at every drawing he took from the drawer, wondering if the car got built, if it survives and if so where is it?
So wondrous were Johns paintings that my mind raced with all the, what if scenarios.
I wore a smile for the whole journey home that day.



Now, going back to my opinion on the influence John Blatchley had on the car design of the 20th Century, I’d like to share more with you, so I hope you can understand a little where I’m coming from here.

On one rainy day I visited John, we talked in length about non R-R & B cars that he’d designed bodies for while at Gurney Nutting.
The list grew and grew and he came out with astonishing information. Information that is only just being realised and shared between enthusiasts using the power of the internet.
All in all it’s helping build a fascinating history of the man and the coachbuilder.
Obviously a lot of anecdotes I’ve told in the past to fellow car enthusiasts have to rely on my trust. Just recently a brilliant website on Coachbuilders has appeared and they are posting some amazing pictures that help consolidate what John shared that rainy afternoon. Much of what he told me was by word of mouth, he had several pictures and pencil drawings of some of these cars built on other manufacturers chassis but little else.
“Most of the time they didn’t want anyone outside of their business to know they’d come to Gurney Nutting” he told me.
“We never got credited for a lot of our designs and most folk thought they came from the car company stylists themselves”
With this in mind you will hopefully see what I mean when I use the word “influenced”.
The majority of car manufacturers like their own histories and evolve their cars on the evolution and lineage of their early designs. Designs that set the mold to some extent and define a manufacturers image.
I hope you’ll be surprised by the links I’m posting below to John Blatchleys work.
Remember, all he usually had was a chassis and a radiator….the rest he created.

Alvis

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... 12&start=0

Daimler

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ey+nutting

Lagonda

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... =102&t=507

Lancia, yes Lancia (page down and check out the Lancia Astura. John told me he did a few Lancia and Alfa’s, The factories and wealthy Italian gentry liked them over and above the likes of Pininfarina, which started an amazing rivalry that I will discuss later)

http://www.jancia.eu/Index/Jancia/List.htm

Stutz

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ing#p57572

During the lunchtime on this rainy day I took John for a bite to eat in the local pub just a few hundred yards up the road from his cottage and he let slip something that made me almost choke on my chips.

“There was this one job that was really hush, hush” he said.

“The chaps from SS came to see me about a new saloon they wanted”
“SS as in Jaguar?” I said choking

“Yes, I reworked the old Continental Sports Saloon design for them you know”

So fellow DDKr’s there's a world exclusive for you right there!

What you have to remember is that John was ONLY 26 years old when WWII began in 1939 and I’ve barely gotten past 1937 so far in my story.

[C3s]

Fascinating, keep it coming. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Darren C]

Thanks..Here's tonight's installment

“So how long did it take to design a car?” I asked
“Sometimes it was a matter of minutes, other times a week or so and I may have changed a few things while it was being built…..which never went down well with the boys on the shop floor”
“Everything was done in house?”
“Yes pretty much so. Apart from choosing certain fittings and fixtures”
“Fittings and fixtures?”
“Lucas lights, Ace sidelights, Wilmot Beedon bumpers, door handles and the like. We just sent a fellow out to buy them in when we ran low”
“But the stuff like glass, chrome decorative trim, your wonderful luggage racks and so on?”
“Oh most of that was made in our workshops”
“And the trimming?”
“That too. Depending on what the customer wanted; we got sent rolls of all sorts of fabrics for the interiors, most were unsuitable!” John replied with a smile.
“So how long did it take to body a car?”
“Well” He paused for a minute. “I suppose about 6 months, sometimes longer if it was a special or the client couldn’t make up their mind on one thing or another”.
“From your painting or drawing what happened next?”
“You do ask a lot of questions” John replied with a twinkle in his eye and continued “Some designs were stylised and needed to be made more practical, others were fine. They were transferred to minimal line drawings and then scaled up”
“Scaled up?”
“The team in the office scaled them up to full size on large sheets of paper. These went down to the woodshop and were pinned on the wall. The wood was then shaped and offered up to the drawings, adjusted here and there until they had copied the design in wood. This went and had the panels beat and fitted, painted, trimmed and so on. We had a dozen or more cars being built at one time. There was no computers then you know, we did everything by hand. It was a very dusty and noisy place to be. Wood dust and shavings everywhere!”

“So you were designing cars around a year before they came into being?”
“Yes, it was all very quick, sometimes we’d re designed a particular model 3 or more times and got orders for them before the first version was completed, let me have a look here”. John rummaged back in his drawers and pulled out yet another picture. Laying them out on the table, the first was the original design for my Sedanca-de-ville I posted earlier. (So for the sake of repetition re posting the drawing a page or so back, here is the earliest know photo of my car I got from DeCampi, taken on 21st May 1946 for the Swain Group)



The next is a drawing John actually photo copied and posted me after this particular days meeting, and as far as I’m aware it’s not been seen before.
This is the evolution into the “VisaVille” short for Visibility De Ville, basically windows in the rear quarters and an integral boot with slightly more curvaceous rear end.


The third drawing which I haven’t got a copy of (it remained in Johns collection) but better still I have a photo of one of the two cars that got built from it, was the “Sportsville” This took the lines from the Aerofoil and the pontoon rear wings and spats from the Maharajah specials. (Make a mental note on this 1935 rear end wing design as it would appear again post war)



“Ah, do you see” said John laughing to himself.
“Look here” John put his finger on his initials on the drawing.
J.B
“Harold was very cross about this” (referring to H.R.Owen)
I must have looked perplexed as I wasn’t sure where this was leading….
“Bloody Barclay” “Harold had said storming into Gurney Nutting offices waving this drawing in his hand and thrusting it into mine” John said.
“He’s passing your drawings off as his designs and we cant have that!” Harold said.
John Blatchley’s initials were JB, he signed all of his designs JB. (as in Jack Barclay!)
“Do you have a middle name?” Harold barked in a rage at John.
“Yes. Polwhele” answered John.
“Well for heavensake start signing it” Harold said “Or something along those lines” John told me.
From then on all Blatchley’s work was signed JPB. (Another DDK first)

I hope anyone reading this can see the “elegance” that was a Blatchley Gurney Nutting Body. The flowing fluidic lines, curves and shapes that became his trademark.
To coin a phrase without being to corny, John was a dedicated follower of fashion as well as a trend setter. He kept a keen eye on the world around him as he trail blazed a lot of his designs.
So far in my rabblings we have gotten to around the mid 1930’s.
A new style was being born.
“Razors Edge” it was to become known as, and Blatchley was about to jump onboard…….

[Berny]

I am finding this so interesting and will have to go back to the start and read it all again to make notes! Berny.

[jtparr]

Love it.....keep it coming

[keith fellowes]

Really interesting, thanks for posting.

My dad had a 'razor edge' in the '50s, except it was a Triumph Renown!!
Guess Triumph copied the style

[Darren C]

Thanks Guys. Keith, you’ll find tonight’s ramblings interesting then!

To continue…..

As I touched upon previously, during my visits I got to talk with John in great length and see many pictures of cars that he’d designed, most of which got built. There were a good few that never made it into production, others like in my post last night got designed, re designed and designed again and all 3 built within a year.

“Have a look at this and tell me what you think” John said handing me a beautiful pastel drawing on dark paper.
“Wow!” that’s georgeous, what model is this?”
“Two Seater Fixed Head Coupe” John replied.
“I’ve never seen anything like this”
“No. It never got built” John sadly replied.
Staring at the picture it suddenly dawned on me….
“What date was this?” I asked.
“Oh, I can’t remember exactly, I’d had the idea a while before I drew it, maybe 35 or; no let me think, it was a long time ago. It had a dickey seat, which didn’t go down well in a Rolls-Royce so….36, yes it was early 36”.
“So the fact it had a dickey seat made it un-popular and that’s why it never got made?” I replied while putting together a puzzle in my mind.
“So the dickey seat shaped the rear of the car?”
“Partly yes, but I did favour the little Parisian horse drawn taxis, they had a neat little elegance and functionality to their shape and it inspired this design and accommodated the dickey seat perfectly”. John replied in a very pragmatic matter of fact way.



“But it’s so Razors edge John, and not like anything else, I’ve seen at that time! Was it shown outside of Gurney Nutting?”
“Of course, it was displayed at Owens and at some Motor Show or other where they had a stand”
“So any other coachbuilder could wander onto Owens stand and view it?
“I know where you’re trying to go here” said John craftily, know full well I wouldn't miss a trick.

My mind was racing again, did Blatchley inadvertently create the Razors Edge design?

“Now, if I can find them I’ll show you something else” he said reaching back to the drawers.
A few minutes later with drawings all over the table he announced. “Aha” Pulling out a drawing.
Again I didn’t get a copy but here’s a photo of the car. An early Phantom III



It was the next evolution of the 3 designs I posted last night with a definitely more than just a hint of Razors Edge in that roof line and boot!

“You always had to stay one step ahead” John said referring to the drawing of the car pictured above.
“You’ve used the roof lines and squared off dickey from the Fixed Head Coupe” I remarked.
“But that’s, well, that’s Razors Edge John, without a doubt” I said with great excitement.
“Not quite, I wasn’t pleased with the conflict of the old rear window curves against the sharp straight lines” he replied as if to douse my excitement. “So that wouldn’t do, would it”.
He handed me another drawing (of which again here’s a photo of the car)



Here it was before my very eyes….the complete evolution of the Razors Edge design.

“John, you can’t tell me you didn’t create the Razors Edge styling now!”

“Everyone was at it, not just me. So no I can’t take credit for this” was his always modest reply.
“Yes but, Freestone & Webb and Mulliners came out of nowhere with a complete finished and styled Razors Edge body, and if I'm not mistaken, their history has no evolution like this. They copied you John” I said in protest. "It's like having the answer without any of the working out"

To give you a very, very quick history lesson, Freestone and Webb were accredited with popularising the Razors Edge style (never inventing it) from 1937 onwards. H.J.Mulliner also adopted the style around the same time, and Park Ward followed a year later as the clean sweeping angular lines of Razors Edge became uber fashionable as the “new” body shape; while the curves and spherical designs fell out of favour (for a while anyway). Hooper was very late to the party and only adopted the style post war.
No one really knows who “invented” Razors Edge, but seeing a series of drawings that day of cars that never got built and cars that evolved a little at a time into Razors Edge designs seals it with me. (Another DDK first?)

“Here’s another” John continued as he’d found another drawing in the pile that was now spread over open drawers, table and floor of his cottage.



Again I have a picture of the car that got built (another Phantom III) and what is interesting to me in this other example of Razors Edge styling is the growth of the boot. John attributed this to public demand. Since demountable trunks had gone out of fashion and integral boots had come in, the landed gentry sent their luggage and entourage ahead of their travelling by car. The world was changing and in the late 30’s more “new money” was emerging without entourage and the motorcar needed to evolve bigger boots.
The side profile of a car as drawn by any 5 year old shows a push-me-pull-you design. This is the beginnings of that side profile that formed the saloon car as we know it today, evolving in Blatchley’s designs.

[Seven]

I have been following this with great interest Darren and thank you very much for posting all the fascinating detail.

My wife is a Mulliner and her great grandfather was Arthur Mulliner.

I had never looked into this in any great depth before, but your thread has sparked a renewed interest. We very sadly do not have any drawings of any of the work they produced. As we understand it his wife destroyed a lot of drawings etc after his death for some sad reason. (It was said that she was embarrassed about the ''trade'' like nature of the business, but that seems odd to me as she came from a brewing family!).

Would you have any advice on the best place to look to start to get more information on the Arthur Mulliner coachworks or would you have any information about them at all?

Thank you very much.

Marcus

[Darren C]

Wow Marcus !

Heres a picture of my very rare 1935 Derby 3 1/2 litre Bentley Sports Saloon with ARTHUR Mulliner original body (one of 2 known to exist).



What would you like to know?