Strut Brace For 1971 2.2E/S

[philosborne]

Folks,
I've been getting mixed messages on the benefits of a strut brace.
Will it make a significant handling difference in a 2.2S engined, Bilstein suspended 2.2E?
If it will - what do you recommend in terms of a bolt in/bolt out strut brace?
Cheers,
Phil.

[Lightweight_911]

Will it make a significant handling difference in a 2.2S engined, Bilstein suspended 2.2E?

No ...

[squirejo]

It will make a difference to your luggage capacity

[911hillclimber]

Made my own loosely modelled on an RSR welded to the top strut bodywork etc.

Never noticed any difference what so ever.
Today they are a marketing bling tool imho.

Might be good if triangulated to the middle of the bulkhead as one piece down by the tank rear edge.

[BILLY BEAN]

Phil,
Not sure that the idea can be easily dismissed as a "marketing tool" as strut braces have been around for at least forty years in Porsche cars albeit at inception in competition cars rather than road cars. The more rigid and geometrically constant the chassis attachment points are for the suspension the better able the suspension is to do its job. The early 911 shell is not particularly structurally rigid in terms of its design in the first place. (These shells were designed before the age of the CAD.) Consider also that the shell of your car is forty five years old and it's rigidity will not have been enhanced with the passage of time. A well designed and attached strut brace should help to maintain front suspension and steering geometry. As has been stated a triangulated strut brace (see Phil Handley's multiple winning Tour Britania car) would be more benficial but I think this is beyond the scope of what you envisage. Whether the addition of a brace is noticeable or significant or not is a separate issue and is in part dependent on the type of driving involved and the sensitivity of the driver. A strut brace bolted onto the suspension tops will hardly compromise front storage capacity.

Kirk

[hot66]

Phil, good to meet you and you car at Donington

Personally I wouldn't bother. I drive my 2.4S pretty hard on fast tight twisty roads and can't say I've ever felt the need. Also your car is more road spec ....it doesn't have sticky low pro tyres etc etc.. You've got tyres with flexible side walls, road spec suspension bushes etc etc.... Can t see a strut brace giving much or any benefit

[911hillclimber]

When I put mine in I also fitted solid top mounts (rose jointed tops) and took all the rubber out of the (hillclimb) car.

I see little gain in a bar when the top mounts are rubber which deflect during the strain of hard cornering.

Ok, hard cornering on grippy semi-race tyres will deflect the top mount and camber and a flex in the shell will add to that, so fitting a bar across will remove some.
I later 'retired' the 911 off the hills and left the bar in but re-fitted the rubber top mounts.

Noticed no change other than it was quieter a little.
Had cause to use the 911 on the hills again so had the chance to notice the difference of a car with 50% rubber back in the front end.

Times were much the same tbh, but far nicer on the road.

One other thing about a brace is in a crunch on one corner the load in part gets transferred to the other corner top tower so can distort the shell in 2 places.

[Bruce M]

Did the factory ever use a strut brace with torsion bar suspension? (as opposed to the coilover package used on the RSR, where the strut top loads are much higher).

[stretch]

The factory used this welded brace on 69 - 70 competition cars. Picture of the Larousse TDF car.

The rose jointed version is evident in some 71 safari rally factory cars. All with normal S struts, pre homologated coilover days.

[von Zipper]

Weltmeister did some tests a few years ago and found significant benefits to steering precision; apparently by stopping spread. As Kirk says, early 911s were hand built without the benefit of laser measurement or precision robotics so tolerances vary. Whether it's worth it for you is debatable I suppose. I'm told a brace can allow alignment where, as in my case we can't achieve the 'ideal' setting - by pulling in the strut tower a tiny amount to compensate for production tolerances. Some braces work better than others they say, I'm fitting a Weltmeister FWIW.

[alfacat]

Hi Phil
All good advice above but without a detailed description of your suspension set up eg. dose your car have anti roll bars, what size are they, with the exception of the 'Billies' is it still to factory 'E' spec (what was factory spec?;-) and not least of all is it set up as it should be....
Also without knowing what you want the car for, Sunday blasts, shopping at Waitroes (don't laugh, a much under rated pastime if you take the long way home), track days or a bit of all the above, it's difficult to give a Yes/No answer.
For what it's worth assuming you like the basic nature of the way your car drives, I'd make sure that all the bushes, bearings and bits and bobs that make up the suspension (front and rear) are working as they should, after that set-up, ride hight, flat floor and corner weighting are worth some investigation. I'd all so make certain that what I've got works as best it can before I started to add after market 'kit'.
Sorry if this is a little long winded and preachy, but it was a rather open question. Most of all have fun with what you do to the car and never stop driving it!

All the best
Ian F.

[philosborne]

Folks,
Thanks very much for all of your advice. As ever you've been a goldmine of accumulated knowledge!
My query originated from a conversation I had with Kirk at Donington Historic Festival last weekend where it was nice to also meet up with a number of other DDKers (including James).
It sounds like I should first and foremost look at the rest of the existing suspension on the car in terms of roll-bars, settings etc. before opting to "gild the lily" with a strut brace as I'm unlikely to be pushing it to its handling limits.
You've hopefully saved me a few bob!
Cheers,
Phil.

[911hillclimber]

IMHO that strategy is spot-on.

[amallagh]

I agree with what everyone else has said.

If you fancy a Weltmeister brace then I have one for sale if you're interested

I have added a front brace to every 911 I've had but they have all been track or rally based conversions.
I do believe the front end of an early 911 is rather flexible and I've certainly managed to bend them a bit with light rallying. A brace can only help in this regard.
I'm going 5 bar fully triangulated on my wide body RSR with super sticky TBs. But that is a fast road/track focused special. I hope I'm not wasting my time
On a '71 road car driven spiritedly on skinny road rubber then can't imagine anyone could tell the difference.
Not all decisions have to be backed up by logic though. You just have to look cool and pretend you're a racing driver. A top bar brace doesn't really affect luggage capacity unless you plan to fill the whole front compartment with a large single item. Not many of us using our early 911s as a van these days

Regards
Andrew

[von Zipper]

A strut brace won't effect luggage capacity much, it's more of a loading gauge