Are these cars losing there soul

[inaglasshouse]

Hi Dave,

I think you are kind-of saying that restoration and preservation is all getting too easy - to find parts and get the work done. I'm with Darren on this one. I don't think it is, not to do it well. Still seems to benefit from serious investment of time. By investing that time we meet (online and in real life) others with the same interests. Friendships are made around the world. All good.

In any case, as you know, many repro parts are lower quality than the originals, or a bit different at least. Fixing up old parts is fun and there is satisfaction in keeping as much of the original car as possible. For those reasons people will continue to faff about in their sheds cleaning up, testing, replating etc old parts, even though a brand new replacement is available. Often the effort makes no economic sense even if you cost your own time at minimum wage, but it's one aspect of the hobby; a nice thing to do. Some people will be able to tell the difference, repro vs original, and we learn something along the way by dismantling that alternator / pedal box / headlamp etc.

Personally I don't see the point of garage queens. I don’t even like car museums - feels like going to the zoo, seeing beasts denied their freedom. By all means restore to concours standard. Then drive it until it needs restoring again! As long as the cars get driven, they acquire "soul". They take us on memorable trips, some of us compete in them, and they pick up battle scars on the way. I only slightly care if the engine shroud or door pocket on a car is original or a well-considered, high quality repro. But I do want to drive my car and I want to see everyone else's car driven (so I can gawp). If you drive wonderful cars like these, you occasionally get a sublime little freeze-frame imprinted on your brain - the sound and smell and feel as you crest a hill heading into a low sun etc. That's what it's about.

With all of that said, I’d love an original unrestored car of the type you favour, Mike. Easier said than done, 50 years on. Since we can’t all have one of those, we need to properly restore. It will still have soul if done with care and knowledge. Your ST will, Dave!

Cheers, Richard.

[911hillclimber]

This is all in the mind.

Above is a very good summary imho, and applies to an old 911, an old Lola race car, an old 1964 Lambretta.

The common link is old.

We love it all, the raw basic engineering compared to the slick smooth efficient modern items.
It is a release to a time when we feel more connected and alive and find it interesting as it all connects the like minded.

The same is for the Silverstone Classic, the SPA classic races, teeming with the like minded, the doers and the dreamers.

These old items bring others wide awake, brighten a day.

The reaction to my champagne yellow 911 on open pipes humming down the M5 as 9 year old boys and 45 year old dads lovingly stare winding the windows down to hear this old Porsche come by, intensify their thrill by dropping down a gear and wave to them.

As to new parts in an old 'thing' I'm re-building my 1964 TV Lambretta, the '2.4 S' of the range back then, £2000 of new parts so far simply because the old parts were too far gone. As Darren correctly says, once you get a majority of parts new the original stuff looks out of place.

In my mind this little scooter ooozzes Italian class and style (today's world) and will be a real pleasure this summer out in the Shropshire countryside. Admiring glances, fond memories and smiles will abound when it is parked. I had one in 1968, parka, union jack helmet etc a glimpse of my youth again for me, and more for others.

This is a soul, the affection and appreciation of the older things, the satisfaction of getting them going and kept going, a sure fire Good Feeling.

As James Brown would sing, 'I feel good'.

[stretch]

Well, those couple of bottles of Red certainly got this discussion up and running. Maybe soul was the wrong word to use. ? Was it character, patina i was looking for ? Who knows. What i meant was it is becoming easy, more convenient to just go on the net and click on a part that is missing from your old car rather than try and find a nice used original with patina.

Maybe i am getting old, or old fashioned. You just can't beat the thrill of the chase when you find that elusive original part that has been missing from your wanted list.

Richard / Darren, i certainly don't think it is getting too easy to restore these cars. Getting parts ? It depends on what parts. I have never found a part that i wanted on DDK via a wanted advert. This is because i have been searching for a good original.

As for the driving of these cars. I get it. The sound of the flat 6 behind you as your heart beats a little faster as you leave your foot in there. I used to own a couple once upon a time.

I have no problem with reproduction parts. Did i not go to the trouble of making a few myself ? Why was that ? It just did not exist anywhere, or at any price. Believe me, i tried to find an original Repa harness and the correct carpet. I know that there are deadlines to be met and under those circumstances there comes a point when you might use a repro part where you didn't want too.

Friends. ? I couldn't agree more. I have made some fantastic friends whilst being a member of this great forum. Some of them have not even had a single pound from my pocket either!!

This has been a very interesting read. Must keep off the laptop once i have pulled the cork out of the bottle !!!
Please keep the opinions coming.

Blues nights in Brixton at 13 years old, i have plenty of soul Mr Parkin !



Dave

[Darren65]

As James Brown would sing, 'I feel good'.

...well put Graham

A number of years back I saw James Brown at Wembley....100% original but the vocals were tired and his legs were going....sad to see, we left early....

....a little while later I saw BB King at the Albert Hall....never as swift a mover as James (I guess he's a 'T' rather than an 'S') but he'd had a hip replacement and he moved just fine....he'd also replaced the worn out strings on his guitar with shiny new one and boy could he play....as good as he ever was back in the day!

[stretch]

Wembley. Bet that wasn't cheap. Should have gone to see this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llcX4I5uWMk

[Lightweight_911]

Blues nights in Brixton at 13 years old, i have plenty of soul Mr Parkin !

Dave

A few decades before you Dave but being from Wandsworth, Brixton was one of my 'stomping grounds' & I was lucky enough to have seen many/most of the great soul, blues & Motown artists in small club venues - just dug out an old typical programme:



Apologies for the sidetrack ...

[hot66]

Soul music doesnt really do anything for me ..... red hot chilli peppers is more my kind of thing ..... DAB radio set to planet rock or classic rock

[stretch]

Wow Andy, that's nearly as old as me that programme. South Lambeth Road boy myself. Wyvil school. You must know that, as the market backed onto Wandsworth Road. Refreshing sidetrack. !

[Bootsy]

Blues nights in Brixton at 13 years old, i have plenty of soul Mr Parkin !

Dave

A few decades before you Dave but being from Wandsworth, Brixton was one of my 'stomping grounds' & I was lucky enough to have seen many/most of the great soul, blues & Motown artists in small club venues - just dug out an old typical programme:



Apologies for the sidetrack ...

Some wonderful names there - I'm a fan of Jackie Mitto and The Skatelites

[Lightweight_911]

Wow Andy, that's nearly as old as me that programme. South Lambeth Road boy myself. Wyvil school. You must know that, as the market backed onto Wandsworth Road. Refreshing sidetrack. !

I know Wyvil Rd Dave - I'm often in that part of the world (a friend has a flat in Fentiman Rd)

[alastairp]

Since you brought up Motown Darren, perhaps we can equate this discussion to The Drifters.
There are always at least two or three groups of them performing at one time. Usually in Majorca or the like. They all have soul but there's only one original........

Just keeping the pot boiling.....

Regards
Mike

But which "original" version of the Drifters are you talking about Mike?

Whilst not a Drifters aficionado myself, according to Wikipedia:

According to Rolling Stone magazine, the Drifters were the least stable of the great vocal groups, as they were low-paid musicians[1] hired by George Treadwell, who owned the Drifters name. There have been 60 vocalists in the history of the Treadwell Drifters line,[2] including several splinter groups by former Drifters members (not under Treadwell's management). These groups are usually identified with a possessive credit such as "Bill Pinkney's Original Drifters", "Charlie Thomas' Drifters", etc.

There are two notable versions of the Drifters. The first classic Drifters, formed by Clyde McPhatter, was inducted into the Vocal Group Hall of Fame as "The Drifters".[3] The second Drifters, featuring Ben E. King, was separately inducted into the Vocal Group Hall of Fame as "Ben E. King and the Drifters".[4] In their induction, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame selected four members from the classic Drifters, two from the second Drifters, and one from the post-Treadwell Drifters.[5]

[inaglasshouse]

But which "original" version of the Drifters are you talking about Mike?

Manufactured group. You'll need to remove an item of clothing to check the build number.
All X-factor finalists have a barcode tattoo-ed on their backsides. Simon Cowell does it personally.
Happy to help.
R.

[PMNorris]

My 70T has soul. It currently looks like a 2.7rs with a 3.0sc engine and lots of lightweight parts. It still drives like a 45 year old car and smells the same as it always did. One day with the help of all the original parts and engine in my garage and help from the likes of AAS sales I might put it back to stock, but for now I think we should be pleased that you can find even the most obscure part somewhere. Before the Internet made it easy, finding some parts for the 88 3.2 carriers commemorative edition car I had was a real pain.
I'd rather have a few non original parts than a rusting wreck

Paul