it won't start

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:44 am

thinking maybe i should sell it to someone who knows what there doing

Post by **Bootsy** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Helen wrote:thinking maybe i should sell it to someone who knows what there doing

Don't get down hearted Helen from one non start! Its all part of the experience and love affair with old cars

It's probably something straightforward.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:20 pm

thats the frustrating thing. it is.its just a lose connection to the starter motor but Larry can't easily get at it to fix it and hasn't got the time to spend on it.

so the cars just sitting there

im feeling frustrated, i hate seeing cars sitting about doing nothing there made for driving and enjoying and when this babys working its wonderful.

Airhead · Post by **Airhead** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:35 pm

Okay............so lets start from the begining. When you turn the key describe to us exactly what happens............hear any noises, anything turn over, fast slow, just a click, no click, lights on the dash come on, if so which ones etc.

The key to successful fault finding is to make no assumtions and devote your energy to finding out what is definately NOT causing the problem in a logical manner starting with the easiest. Crazy as it may seem this way the solution normally falls in your lap with the minimum amount of grief...........you'll always find something in the last place you look for it

I'm sure you'll get there and trust me there is no feeling like punching the air when it roars into life after YOU fixed it (or is that just a blokey thing lol)

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:19 pm

turn key. lights on the dash all come on as they should but nothing else happens and i mean nothing no click no turning of engine nothing

MdR · Post by **MdR** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:06 pm

Helen
it is really difficult to diagnose the problem over a week long internet forum thread. Also not knowing your mechanical confidence level (most stuff isn't difficult if you've detailed instructions & the bottle to do the job

) doesn't make it any easier. Where's that hammer

It could be the feed from the starter circuit (the 'leccy bit that turning the key actuates) to the starter motor. When you turn the key you allow +12V to be fed to the solenoid on the starter. If you have a dicky connection somewhere in this you'd get the symptoms you describe. I'd start by checking the spade terminal on the soleniod that is the connection between the wire from the key & the starter. I've had a 914/4 & 2 beetles where this simple spade terminal is loose, give it a wiggle & you get a contact again & bingo no problem until you drive it, it all gets shaken about a bit & the connection goes loose again.

Can you cheer yourself up by throwing a little bit of money at it & get a pro. to sort this problem? If it's just not starting due to the starter motor I see no reason why it won't bump start so you can drive it a garage.

lewis · Post by **lewis** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:19 pm

join the AA or RAC elect for home start then give them a call,sorted.

with the amount of cars you are running I am suprised you are not a member, worth thinking about perhaps,I joined last year, just in case. Ahh theres a thought

wonder if the would pop round and put my 912 back together.

lewis

MdR · Post by **MdR** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:21 pm

lewis wrote:join the AA or RAC elect for home start then give them a call,sorted.

Now that is a plan!!! Brilliant, yet simple. Nice one Lewis

912uk · Post by **912uk** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:40 pm

lewis wrote:join the AA or RAC elect for home start then give them a call,sorted.

with the amount of cars you are running I am suprised you are not a member, worth thinking about perhaps,I joined last year, just in case. Ahh theres a thought wonder if the would pop round and put my 912 back together.

lewis

ha ha I got the RAC to put in my windscreens on the 912 ops no I didn't if the RAC accountant is looking at this thread

912uk · Post by **912uk** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:44 pm

Helen can you jack up the car and put it on axle stands properly?

if you can then you are half way there to getting to fit the problem.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:28 pm

912uk wrote:Helen can you jack up the car and put it on axle stands properly?

if you can then you are half way there to getting to fit the problem.

<blue peter mode>

heres one i did earlier

Airhead · Post by **Airhead** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:17 pm

Okay well if you dont hear a click then the solenoid isn't engaging.......this is the first thing that needs to happen to start the car. The solenoid pushes the starter gear inwards to engage with the flywheel. If this doesn't happen then the starter cannot turn the engine over. The starter motor itself however is probably fine because it shouldn't be engergised until the solenoid has done its job.

To start by sucking eggs the first thing to check is the battery! Even if you can measure 12volts accross the battery with a meter it may still not be able to supply the current required to operate the starter however it would need to be very flat I should think to not get as far as engaging the solenoid.

So step 1 is to try jump starting it.

If you know that the battery is fine then move on to the starter/solenoid itself, from the pictures posted earler you can see that it is attached to the side of the starter. Things that can happen here to prevent the starter from engaging could be the solenoid/starter has a mechanical fault that stops it from engaging or it may not be getting the required juice from the battery due to a poor connection somewhere or it may have an internal electrical fault.

Mechanical faults due to wear and tear normally show up as intermittent faults that get worse with time for example if the bearings in the starter wear then it may not engage properly because the armature is dragging on the housing. In this case sometimes it can be hit with a hammer whilst an assistant turns the key and persuaded to start! (yes there is a place for percussive maintainence in fault diagnosis!)

On the electrical side there is only one connection on the starter/solenoid you need to check and this is the smaller of the two and probably a yellow wire. This provides the live feed to the solenoid via the keyswitch and fusebox. If everything works then when you turn the key 12v should appear on this wire. If it does and you've tried all else and the connection is tight then you need a new starter/solenoid assembly. Check also that the starter/solenoid assembly is bolted tight to the bellhousing as this is where the system gets its earth (negative) connection. If 12v does not appear then check the fuse and the keyswitch. You can eliminate the keyswitch quickly and easilly but I'll PM you that information as it may be useful to theives so I dont want to publiscise it here. If the keyswitch and the fuse check out then there must be a break in the wire somewhere, you can narrow this to before or after the fuse by seeing if you get 12v at the fuse when the key is turned, no doubt by this stage you'll be calling an auto electrician though.

The following links are great indepth info on mechanical workings of the starter and a good wiring diagram that you can strip layers away from and view the starter system in isolation (select starter and battery)

http://www.hillmanimages.com/912/lect15.html

http://www.hillmanimages.com/912/early_912_wiring.pdf

both give more info than you need to know though.

Airhead · Post by **Airhead** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:25 pm

Sorry.......forgot to mention you'll need a volt meter to check electrical connections as outlined above or you can use a test lamp consisting of an indicator bulb or similar connected to a couple of peices of wire attached to some croc clips. Measure with probes or croc clips attached between the wire/connection on test and a peice of clean metal on the chassis or body, engine/gearbox. If using a volt meter then connect the positive (red) probe to the wire/connection on test and the negative (black) probe to your chosen earth point

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:25 am

airhead you are a star..

at this moment in time,the old girl seems to be working fine but, i just know shes waiting for the most inconvenient time to throw another tantrum.

Airhead · Post by **Airhead** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:34 pm

That'll be the starter bushes then