Mongrel Street Racer

[Darren65]

With the ever increasing values of these early cars I've decided that it would make more sense to sell my 2.2S engine, find a suitable replacement 2.4 unit and turn this car back into a nice stock 1972 2.4T ...........

Well, with the prices coming out of Essen and the values that nicely restored T's seem to be making it did cross my mind ……….but not for long!

Instead I think I'll run with this…..

Shell
Rebuilt shell with new inner front wings, front floor pan, cross panel, inner and outer sills, rear slam panel etc.
Rear transmission tunnel modification with various strengthening mods.
RS type front strut brackets
Strengthening for roll hoop and harness points

Body
Narrow body with lightly rolled arches
New steel front wings and rear quarters, new steel door skins
Composite Engine Lid
Composite Bonnet
Fibreglass R Type Front Bumper with slanted cut cooling slats
Fibreglass Rear Bumper
Sunroof Delete
Inner door frames to be cut out, strengthened and left open
Custom aluminium through horn grill ducting to channel cooling
Custom rear engine lid grill
Plexiglas side windows, rear quarters with vents and rear screen
Cibie Biode headlights with Hella clear lenses
Rubber hold down straps for bonnet and engine lid
Lightweight R type door handles
100 Litre Fuel Tank
Bosche battery kill switch on scuttle

Paint
Car finished in Porsche 018 Tangerine. Custom deep orange Porsche script and bumper stripes
Satin black to under body, engine bay, under hood and complete interior to include the backs of doors, bonnet and engine lid. Satin black to extend into door shuts
No underseal

Interior
Stripped out interior, delete knee pads, glove box etc. Sound deadening to floor only
Clock delete
Custom 10K Tacho
Custom Oil/Fuel Gauge
180MPH Speedo
Lightweight carpet set with RS type rubber matting
Half roll bar with correct 40mm tubing
Black head lining
Leather straps to raise windows
R type pull catches for door release
Lightweight ST type drivers seat in smooth German black vinyl bolsters with basket weave inserts by Vintage Seats
Lightweight R type passenger seat in smooth German black vinyl bolsters with basket weave inserts by Vintage Seats
Lightweight Recaro seat sliders
Steering Wheel – Early (stacked) Momo Prototipo Silver Dished 350mm or 1978 Momo Prototipo S Black Dished 350mm or Porsche 380mm with Hockey Puck Horn Push or…….now - 360mm Flat Black Momo Monza with genuine unrestored bare Momo 230 Hub and original rare large crested Porsche horn push
Repa front harnesses

Suspension & Brakes (subject to modification)
Modified and strengthened RS style rear trailing arms
Koni adjustable front struts & rear dampers
15mm front stabilizer
16mm rear stabilizer
25mm rear torsion bars
Complete 930 Turbo Calipers and brake system
RS type front brace

Transmission, Wheels & Tyres
Rebuilt 915 gearbox with ZF limited slip differential set at 40% lock
Gear ratios TBD
7R Rear Fuchs with RSR style finish running Avon CR6ZZ 215/60R15 Tyres
Deep 6 Front Fuchs with RSR style finish running Avon CR6ZZ 185/70R15 Tyres
Extended wheel studs with steel open wheel bolts

Engine
2.2S engine fully rebuilt to 2.5 specification; cases bored to accept larger barrels and pistons and boat tailed, line honed, shuffle pinned, oil pressure relief by-pass, time sert head studs, machined barrel decks, oil squirters, heavy duty head studs, heads bored to accept twin spark, open out stacks etc – target of 100BHP per litre
Butterfly’s bored out to 42mm
Inlet and outlet ports to 41mm
New 89mm Mahle Barrels & Pistons
Twin Spark Distributor with custom body
GE60 Cams
Lightweight clear engine shroud
Custom Race Headers (no heat)
Silenced twin out exhaust with custom tips
Trombone oil cooler with external sill pipes

That should work!

Edit: probably non stop until it's finished…….and then some!

[johnM]

With the ever increasing values of these early cars I've decided that it would make more sense to sell my 2.2S engine, find a suitable replacement 2.4 unit and turn this car back into a nice stock 1972 2.4T ...........

Well, with the prices coming out of Essen and the values that nicely restored T's seem to be making it did cross my mind ……….but not for long!

Instead I think I'll run with this…..

Shell
Rebuilt shell with new inner front wings, front floor pan, cross panel, inner and outer sills, rear slam panel etc.
Rear transmission tunnel modification with various strengthening mods.
RS type front strut brackets
Strengthening for roll hoop and harness points

Body
Narrow body with lightly rolled arches
New steel front wings and rear quarters, new steel door skins
Composite Engine Lid
Composite Bonnet
Fibreglass R Type Front Bumper with slanted cut cooling slats
Fibreglass Rear Bumper
Sunroof Delete
Inner door frames to be cut out, strengthened and left open
Custom aluminium through horn grill ducting to channel cooling
Custom rear engine lid grill
Plexiglas side windows, rear quarters with vents and rear screen
Cibie Biode headlights with Hella clear lenses
Rubber hold down straps for bonnet and engine lid
Lightweight R type door handles
100 Litre Fuel Tank

Paint
Car finished in Porsche 018 Tangerine. Custom deep orange Porsche script and bumper stripes
Satin black to under body, engine bay, under hood and complete interior to include the backs of doors, bonnet and engine lid. Satin black to extend into door shuts
No underseal

Interior
Stripped out interior, delete knee pads, glove box etc. Sound deadening to floor only
Clock delete
Custom 10K Tacho
Lightweight carpet set with RS type rubber matting
Half roll bar with correct 40mm tubing
Black head lining
Leather straps to raise windows
R type pull catches for door release
Lightweight ST type drivers seat in smooth German black vinyl bolsters with basket weave inserts by Vintage Seats
Lightweight R type passenger seat in smooth German black vinyl bolsters with basket weave inserts by Vintage Seats
Lightweight Recaro seat sliders
Steering Wheel – Early (stacked) Momo Prototipo Silver Dished 350mm or 1978 Momo Prototipo S Black Dished 350mm or Porsche 380mm with Hockey Puck Horn Push or…….pending!
Momo 230 Hub
Repa front harnesses

Suspension & Brakes (subject to modification)
Modified and strengthened RS style rear trailing arms
Koni adjustable front struts & rear dampers
15mm front stabilizer
16mm rear stabilizer
25mm rear torsion bars
Complete 930 Turbo Calipers and brake system
RS type front brace

Transmission, Wheels & Tyres
Rebuilt 915 gearbox with ZF limited slip differential set at 40% lock
Gear ratios TBD
7” Rear Minilites running Avon CR6ZZ 215/60R15 Tyres
Choice of plain polished and with petals 6” Front Fuchs running Avon CR6ZZ 185/70R!5 Tyres
Extended wheel studs with steel open wheel bolts

Engine
2.2S engine fully rebuilt to 2.5 specification; cases bored to accept larger barrels and pistons and boat tailed, line honed, shuffle pinned, oil pressure relief by-pass, time cert head studs, machined barrel decks, oil squirters, heavy duty head studs, heads bored to accept twin spark, open out stacks etc – target of 100BHP per litre
Butterfly’s bored out to 42mm
Inlet and outlet ports to 41mm
New 89.7mm Mahle Barrels & Pistons
Twin Spark Distributor with custom body
GE60 Cams
Lightweight clear engine shroud
Custom Race Headers (no heat)
Silenced twin out exhaust with custom tips

That should work!

Sounds ok

[haasad]

Crikey that sounds cool.........., I think that you may find 25 mm rear bars a bit much with a lightweight build I know mine with a spec close to that above and identical dampers is pretty firm/harsh on the roads we typically encounter on 23? mm bars. Different story on a track though...

Andy

[Lightweight_911]

Sounds like you've thought the spec out pretty thoroughly Darren !

A couple of questions :

- since you're not utilising much of the original 2.2S engine, what's the reason for retaining the crankcases rather than using a pair of later/stronger 7R cases ?

- 41mm inlet (& exhaust) ports sound pretty big for a (mainly ?) street-driven 2.5 litre engine - is this Nick F 's recommendation ?

- what offset are you planning for the rear 7in Minilites - 49mm (911R) ? If less than that you may experience tyre clearance problems with CR6ZZ tyres


Sounds like it's going to be a great car (no surprise there) !

Biggest problem you're going to have is which of your 2 early 911's to take out ...

[Darren65]

Thank you for the welcome comments.

The reason for listing the spec was to fuel/encourage feedback, especially on suspension set-up……I might even listen to some of it!

A couple of questions :

- since you're not utilising much of the original 2.2S engine, what's the reason for retaining the crankcases rather than using a pair of later/stronger 7R cases ?

- 41mm inlet (& exhaust) ports sound pretty big for a (mainly ?) street-driven 2.5 litre engine - is this Nick F 's recommendation ?

- what offset are you planning for the rear 7in Minilites - 49mm (911R) ? If less than that you may experience tyre clearance problems with CR6ZZ tyres

No idea regarding crankcases, I'll put this to Nick - the engine specification has come from a number of our conversations, I'll check measurements with him to make sure I have everything correct. The car will be largely street driven along with a few track days, ultimately I'll follow Nick's advice on final engine spec.

I had no idea on offset for the Minilites although seems I do now - thanks Andy!

Please keep the comments/recommendations coming.

Cheers,

[Darren65]

Biggest problem you're going to have is which of your 2 early 911's to take out ...

Neither of these cars will be Garage Queens and both will be well used; I intend to add patina in spades!

[dragonfly]

Instead I think I'll run with this…..

...snip...

That should work!

If someone asked me to define my ultimate fun 911, I reckon that would pretty much cover it! Can't wait to see it evolve

[Darren65]

A couple of questions :

- since you're not utilising much of the original 2.2S engine, what's the reason for retaining the crankcases rather than using a pair of later/stronger 7R cases ?

No idea regarding crankcases, I'll put this to Nick

Cheers,

Actually thinking about things it has been suggested by others that I should sell the 2.2S engine and build up a 2.7 unit from a 2.4 base, however I really wanted to use the 2.2 as a base to build a period authentic 2.5 engine; possibly the reason why Nick hasn't suggested alternative crankcases? I'll retain all the 2.2 parts in case I decide otherwise in the future.

Cheers,

[Mitch]

Wow... that's a Declaration of Intent if ever I saw one! Excellent. And I know all those details will be beautifully executed. But imperfectly maybe?

[Darren65]

But imperfectly maybe?

I'm with you there; imperfect is perfect!

[Darren65]

A couple of questions :

- since you're not utilising much of the original 2.2S engine, what's the reason for retaining the crankcases rather than using a pair of later/stronger 7R cases ?

- 41mm inlet (& exhaust) ports sound pretty big for a (mainly ?) street-driven 2.5 litre engine - is this Nick F 's recommendation ?

I met with Nick today and to answer your questions properly Andy; he hadn't suggested alternative crankcases due to cost and the difficulty in finding a set of 7R's although mainly due to my wish of utilising this engine as best possible and keeping things period authentic. He may have made alternative suggestions if the engine was coming from a matching numbered S shell but as it's come from a Mongrel T it's less of an issue and anyway, it can always be taken back if so desired.

I was right in that we're going with 41mm ports, as per factory ST's; in his experience on this type of engine anything less just pushes air and he sets things up to create a bottleneck just above the throat that works perfectly.

Anyway that's what I think he said!

Cheers,

[jury]

I met with Nick today and to answer your questions properly Andy; he hadn't suggested alternative crankcases due to cost and the difficulty in finding a set of 7R's although mainly due to my wish of utilising this engine as best possible and keeping things period authentic. He may have made alternative suggestions if the engine was coming from a matching numbered S shell but as it's come from a Mongrel T it's less of an issue and anyway, it can always be taken back if so desired.

I was right in that we're going with 41mm ports, as per factory ST's; in his experience on this type of engine anything less just pushes air and he sets things up to create a bottleneck just above the throat that works perfectly.

Anyway that's what I think he said!

Cheers,

Yeah, sounds about right.....I think

Car sounds great Darren. What a spec!! Look forward to seeing this develop


Chris

[squirdan]

this sounds very good indeed Darren

some thoughts:

- the decals personal taste but dont rule out matt black?
- centre fill tank?
- 930 calipers are expensive and not that amazing but I know you wanted everything period
- custom engine lid...are you doing "a magnus"? I am considering it
- def worth speccing your cage with a harness bar
- wevo gearshift kit?

dan

[Darren65]

Car sounds great Darren. What a spec!! Look forward to seeing this develop

Thanks Chris, pretty standard looks wise but when you're lacking creativity of others (and talent) it's best to play safe!

this sounds very good indeed Darren

some thoughts:

- the decals personal taste but dont rule out matt black?
- centre fill tank?
- 930 calipers are expensive and not that amazing but I know you wanted everything period
- custom engine lid...are you doing "a magnus"? I am considering it
- def worth speccing your cage with a harness bar
- wevo gearshift kit?

dan

Cheers Dan,

All worthy considerations; I'm trying for quite a plain & subtle 'have to look twice' effect before noticing the car's something different from the norm. I might even try decals in the same body colour?

Love them but will probably resist a centre fill tank and just the engine lid grill will be a custom job. 930 brakes certainly aren't cheap although far less than 2.8RSR calipers and imo they look sssooooooo cool

Definitely think you should opt for a 'prototype' (Magnus! ) engine lid, they look awesome!

[Darren65]

A very long and a little depressing day yesterday….

…first a trip to Dave's new man cave to collect doors & Cibié's and talk Repa harnesses….wonderful work space and wish my shell was that solid!….



….then on to Barry to deliver another batch of panels…he's started some of the smaller jobs….





….rear quarters have now been successfully removed…



…only to reveal how bad things really are underneath, this one's been patched a fair few times; new rear inner wing it is then! ….



….Barry actually compared this shell to Swampy!!!….so much for the hoped for 200 hour shell rebuild I was fortunate to enjoy with the E, here we're talking double that and then some! …..I guess you win some, you lose some!

Finally a visit to Bournemouth to drop off parts and see my 2.4E…..which to the untrained eye looks remarkably similar to how it did 9 weeks ago!