Tyres for RS or 914/6GT running 7's & 8's ?

amallagh · Post by **amallagh** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:09 pm

I'm due to replace the tyres on my road going 7" & 8" Fuchs on my 914/6GT and choice of a quality sports road tyre in an appropriate size to fit the 8's particularly seem to have diminished since I last bought some.
My size of choice in recent years has been 225/60R15 on the 8s and 205/60R15 on the 7s.
I'm not going to consider a 50 profile tyres as the side wall is too small for the European rallies I do.
Might just get away with 55 profile on the wider rear tyres but really want 60's or even 65's. (55's and 65's seem to be even rarer than 60's anyway !)

Problem now seems to be 2 fold -
1) Trying to find a single tyre model that is available in both front and rear sizes
2) Lack of main brand (eg Goodyear, Pirelli, Bridgestone, Continental, Michelin) performance road tyres available in 60 profile apart from ridiculously expensive Motorsport options

Here is what I've found on line in the more difficult to find 225/60R15 (excluding the very cheap brands)
I've grouped them into rough price bands in order of cheapest first.
Mass produced tyres <£100
Falken ZE912 (/914) - used this before. well priced but grip level drops off quickly with use
Avon ZZ3 - anyone know how this compares ?
Kumho KH17
Hankook Optimo K415
Vredestein Sportrac 3 - anyone know how this compares ?
Uniroyal 440 (not sure if this is still available) - Tried these many year ago on another car and remember them as having very soft sidewalls.

215/60R15 ONLY -
Kuhmo Solus KH17 (<£100)
Toyo Proxes CF1 (<£100)
Yoko C drive (<£100)
Goodyear NCT5 (£130)
Pirelli P600 (£180)

Premium tyre brand options
Only one I could find was this -
Continental Premium Contact 2 £130 - not marketted as a sports tyre so shying away from this compared to some in the <£100 category. Shame it isn't the Sport Contact option. I have these on my BMW and they are great !
Anyone know of any others ?

3rd group is the Motorsport tyres but prices take a massive leap into the stratosphere
Yokohama A032R £215 - No personal experience of using these but think they again have low tread depth and last no time at all. Presumably a good tyre through ? Would appreciate any advice about performance/wear/etc. using this tyre in a fast road/rally application ?
Avon CR6ZZ £300 - Used these in 185/70R15. I know they have brilliant grip in wet and dry 9and cover you in black marks when you handle them !) but at £1200 for 4 it does start to make it a bit ridiculous ! Also very low tread depth from new and last no time at all.
Dunlop D84J £??? - Used in smaller sizes. Great tyres in wet and dry. Different compounds available. Soft wears out in a day of rally no problem. Medium/Hard compounds possible for road use. Very shallow tread depth. Heaps of grip and least they don't cover you in loads of smelly black stains like the CR6ZZs !

Update 15/3/13 - Checked with Mr Tyre and the D84J in not in stock in correct size and there are no plans to make any ever !!

Would like to go for CR6ZZ (or Yokohama or D84J) but price, low tread depth and high wear rate makes them prohibitively expensive. Therefore curently thinking about Falken ZE912, Avon ZZ3, Kumho KH17, or Vredestein Sportrac 3.
Thing is I'm not really that keen on any of these and only one I have any personal experience of on my 914/6GT are the Falkens which I can only describe as adequate

Any other options people know about or any personal experience of using any of these tyres welsome ?

Andrew

yoda · Post by **yoda** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:06 pm

Not quite the sizes you were looking for but my car runs 7 + 8s with 195/65/R15 + 215/55R15 Goodyear Eagle NCT5s. Premium brand but they aren't from their performance tyre range.

The car feels very well balanced and responsive and I have been quite happy with the performance so far. I've done about 600 miles on them, mainly on dry but cold days. Not driven on them in anger or in hot weather but no reason to think they wouldn't be ok for road use. Reasonably priced and given the limited miles I do each year, I'm not really that worried about longevity. In terms of appearance, the profile looks fantastic.

The other tyre you might want to look at is the Fulda Y2000 which used to be available in the original 2.7 RS sizes I think. No idea if they are any good though.

Regards

amallagh · Post by **amallagh** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:12 am

Interesting tyre size combination I wouldn't have though of. Your combination makes the front tyre side wall slightly taller than the rear. My ideal combination of 225/60 and 205/60 places things the other way round. I would go got 225/55 rears but nothing really available in tyhat size bar the Uniroyal 440.
Presumably the NCT5 will be fairly similar to the Conti Premium Contact2 in terms of rating/performance.

Any more experiences out there of the tyres listed in my post or any other options ?

yoda · Post by **yoda** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:54 am

I think the original 2.7 RS tyre sizes were 185/70/15 + 215/60/15 so the front sidewall is always going to be a bit taller isn't it?

I'm no expert so happy to defer to others.

amallagh · Post by **amallagh** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:36 am

I've added in red some 215/60R15 only options to the original post

Any experiences/recomendations out there of any of these as a high performance road tyre ?

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:20 pm

If you wish to run Avon cr6zz in the original sizes front and tear I have investigated a group discount buy.

The best I have come up with is
£179 total cost for 185/70x15
£219 total cost for 215/60x15

If anyone has a better price than this please let me know the source and perhaps we can offer Ddk owners a further discount. I think on such repeatable business as tyres it could be in a suppliers interest to capture a large slice of the Ddk pie.

Tyre fitting would be next on the hit list.

Let me know if you (or anyone else) has interest in the above tyres at the above prices.

Regards
Mike

Regards
Mike

Lightweight_911 · Post by **Lightweight_911** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Mike - if those prices include VAT I'd be interested in a set.

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:30 pm

Vat included. Trying to twist arms for free carriage too but it might just be discounted. Poss £20 per set of 4 tyres.

I need to get an order for at least three sets, (which could be four of the same size) to get the price.

Andy, I might put something up as a main thread to try to get more interest in case not everyone sees this.

Sorry to hijack your thread Andrew. Would this price on the Avons help you swing towards them? Thats a £400 saving on your own quoted price although you do have to get them fitted and balanced and there 'might' be a £20 carriage charge.

My tyre fitter is very careful (he has been well warned on the cost of Fuchs refurbishment) and charges me a tenner to fit each tyre. So you would still save over £300, enough to buy two spare tyres!! Buy four get two free!!

Anyone else interested?

Regards
Mike

NigelC210 · Post by **NigelC210** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:43 pm

Are both front and rear Avon cr6zz VR rated now?

previous thread....
http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... s&start=15

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:00 pm

Mike,

I desperately need a set for my 7 and 8 x 15 summers- but I have no choice but for the pirelli's, as approved by Porsche AG because of that damn speed rating.

I'd hate to have something happening in Germany and some Helmut playing hard because of some non approved Avons deemed illegal over there.

Here is the link to the pdf from Porsche Classic
http://files2.porsche.com/filestore.asp ... d6dde4ab54

Cheers,

Bert
PS; Andrew: thanks for your informative post. Most people with 15 inchers are no doubt ogling your outcome.

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:46 pm

NigelC210 wrote:Are both front and rear Avon cr6zz VR rated now?

previous thread....
http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... s&start=15

No,

But unlike Bert with the vast autobahn network at his disposal I rarely get to 135mph on our local country roads. Low speed grip is more essential especially now

Regards
Mike

NigelC210 · Post by **NigelC210** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:08 pm

Just checked...Longstone now list the 185/70 as VR

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/18 ... cr6zz.html

amallagh · Post by **amallagh** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:09 am

NigelC210 wrote:Just checked...Longstone now list the 185/70 as VR
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/18 ... cr6zz.html

As does Avon's own website

I'm assuming the 185/70 & 215/60 combination is meant for the std 6" and 7" rim combination rather than 7's & 8's ?

Does anyone know what was the 'original' tyre size combination for 7s & 8s in 1973 ?

Hi Mike,
certainly sounds like a good price compared to the listed retail. Last time I bought some CR6ZZs a couple of years ago (185/70R15s), then BMTR in Birmingham gave me the best price. They do like to think of themselves as the UKs main distributor for Avon Motorsport tyres. See link below
http://bmtrracing.com/
With that premise, I'm sure they would be more than keen to try to beat any other quote you may have. They were certainly up for this the last time I bought a set of 6 and offered fitting for free. They are worth a try. I've checked out my old invoices and I dealt with a guy called Paul Smith in May 2010. Don't know if is still there but tyres were £131+vat for 185/70s.

CR6ZZs are great in wet or dry so I'm very tempted even with their high cost, but just not sure they have an ideal combination for 7s & 8s. Ironically 225/60R15 on the rear is perfect. But what to stick on the front ?
185/70 is too narrow imho.
195 or 205 are the right width - 205/70R15 is available but larger diameter then I'd like. 215/60R15 is a bit wide in width but possible. Might give a slightly unstable sidewall but CR6ZZs have such stiff side walls it should be OK. I do wonder if they will fit in the front arches ! Other option might be the 225/65R15 rear and 205/70R15. At least the diameters are similar.

So I'm thinking -
225/65 & 205/70 OR 225/60 & 215/60
Shame they don't make a 195/65 or 205/65 for the front.
OR thinking outside the box, how about 225/60R15 CR6ZZ rear and 205/60R15 Yoko A048 or Dunlop D84J front !!

Just in case I'm missing something here, do people try to fit 185/70s & 215/60s on 7s & 8s ?
On Avons own website they quote the following rim widths
185/70R15 - 4.5-6.0 rims
215/60R15 - 6.5-7.0 rims
http://www.avonmotorsport.com/historic/road-legal/cr6zz
The lower end of these suggested scales from Avon do feel far too low, but 7s & 8s would be well outside their recommended top limit. I would have said that 6" & 7" rims were about perfect.

Comments welcome

Lightweight_911 · Post by **Lightweight_911** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:01 am

The same sizes of tyre were fitted to the '73 2.7RS irrespective of whether they were fitted with 6's & 7's or 7's & 8's:

185/70x15 VR (F) & 215/60x15 VR (R)

redrobin911 · Post by **redrobin911** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:35 am

The tyres should be the same overall height/rolling circumference hence why the fronts have a higher tyre wall height - than the rears. You will need to check ride height and probably corner weight the car if you do this but its what i would do.

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