Snow driving

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:00 am

great saying from the late Alan Clark

" Winter should be a time for discretion, summer for display. That, after all, is nature's own rule "

Almost learnt that myself last night when trying to 4 wheel drift a 2 tonne barge in the snow

decapman · Post by **decapman** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:38 am

Snow Tyres
Get Snow tyres, they are F******g awesome.
I have them on the Audi and have spent all weekend chugging around on the packed snow and sheet ice doing hill starts and even towing Left 4 deads Merc out of his drive over the weekend.

My local supplier fits them on the car in December and stores my summer tyres free of charge ready to swap over in the spring again.
In reality snow tyres are better in the cold rain and damper months than normal tyres anyway so think of them as not an additional expense but as extending the life of your normal tyres.

I have them for the bus too now and that came in useful when ferrying staff to the Christmas party in London as the trains had given up.

left4dead · Post by **left4dead** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:24 pm

Here's a question I thought of (as I passed the Gallardo Spyder in the ditch on the A21 yesterday afternoon) Marcus:

How much of it is down to the snow tyre element and how much is down to your 4WD system?

Maybe I answered this myself as don't Lambo's all have 4WD?

smallspeed · Post by **smallspeed** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:05 pm

doesn't help with the above question, but i had an x5 3.0d on snow tyres in germany this time two years ago and it was snowing like hell the whole week (settlign on the autobahns and everything). i was AMAZED how good the snow tyres were, it was like driving in the rain on normal tyres..

i've been on the lookout for some for my car but can't see any at a decent price anywhere at the moment (i guess its the wrong time of year to be looking) as i have a spare set of wheels, so if anyones got any good sugestions im all ears! (235/45/17)

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:18 pm

I have a VERY powerful front wheel drive Seat on wide tyres, it's a real problem in the packed snow. My Audi RS2 with 4WD and even more power is a pussy cat in the same conditions. 4WD makes all the difference. You still can't stop though, maybe that's where snow tyres will make all the difference. Now if I had studded tyres.........

Histrally · Post by **Histrally** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:51 pm

I agree with Nick,
I have 4wd, adjustable centre differential and 300BHP. Great fun in the snow, lots of traction even with standard road tyres but when it comes to stopping on ice I am no better than anybody else. I just wish some of these 4x4 drivers would understand that.
If we got this weather more often I would invest in winter tyres. Worked a lot in Canada and Scandanavia. where they all have a winter set of tyres as standard. Studs are great but on tarmac they make a mess of the road and pull out.
Jerry

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:25 pm

4x4 is fine when you're accelerating .... no difference when you're corning off the throttle or braking.

My 4x4 is on some very wide road tyres and is pretty nervous on the snow packed / ice roads around here. Got into another 'discussion' with the wife yesterday as we rounded a corner at 15-20mph with the backend at an extra 45degrees than it should have been

Still, it is way better than the BMW & it's extra wide runflat tyres.... that is a disaster in this weather

decapman · Post by **decapman** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:24 pm

Oh but my winter tyres dont have studs.
They have what looks like a very normal tread pattern but with some extra thin grooves between the deep valleys of the tread.
Seemingly the compound is different too so it remains softer in cold weather. The tread pattern shifts more water when wet too so it isnt just for winter.
That said this is the first time in three years I have really felt the benefit. We had a bit of snow round our way in Feb which lasted all of one three days and I go skiing every year in the car, but continental road clearance being so organised we really havent encountered sonw covered roads even high up in the Alps

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:33 pm

I used Michelin Alpin on the Fulvia for Classic road rallying in the wet and dry, they were pretty good. The Vredestein Snowtrac 2 gets rave reviews from any of the users I've met. Again good in the dry, and excellent in the wet. The Winter Trial used the Vredestein as its control tyre, I believe. Unfortunately, never got the chance to try them in snow, as 70s Italian cars and salted roads are not a combination that is attractive!!

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:02 pm

I have michelin Alpins for nearly all my cars except the turbo. I really don't fancy that in snow, as it is lowered. Different set of (original alloys, nice coating of vaseline on it and whehey.

Braking distance does get improved, as does grip on snow, but on ice nothing but good luck will see you through really.

Btw, Porsche has published a new pdf with the latest tested and RECOMMENDED winter tyres for the older models.

It is in German, and I have translated some important remarks:

Einsatz - usage
A: für alle Bereiche - for all types of winter terrain
B: für häufige Autobahnfahrten - for frequent motorway usage
C: für schneereiche Gebiete - for areas with loads of snow

Schneeketten freigang: Is it approved for snow chains?
Ja: yes
Nein: no

Es dürfen nur Reifen des gleichen Fabrikats und Typs under gleichen Spezifikationskennziffer (NO, N1, N2 …) an
einem Fahrzeug verwendet werden.
On a vehicle, you are only allowed tyres from the same manufacturer and type as well as the same specification index (N0, N1, n2...)

Schneekettenfreigang nur ohne Distanzscheiben.
Approval for snow chains is allowed if no spacers are mounted on the axle

http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/d ... pe=default

HTH,

Bert

smallspeed · Post by **smallspeed** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:52 am

i've actually managed to get a set of steel wheels for my BMW for £30 (16x7") last night which i will put some winter tyres on.
im not looking for all-out studded snow tyres, but will definetly get some winter tyres which are better in the snow and manky wetness as 650Nm, 9.5" wheels and rwd don't mix once it gets slippy out

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:35 am

650Nm

Please explain!

Project 911 · Post by **Project 911** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:49 pm

Beeing from Finland I'm very used to snow driving. As said, winter tyres are must (by law they are required there Dec-Feb minimum). You really dont need spikes, just regular winter tyres will do, and they are pretty good nowadays even on dry tarmac, tyre technology has moved forward a lot. If you want really good winter tyres, you need to buy "scandinavion edition" tyres, many winter tyres are designed for central European mild conditions, but they should be fine for UK.

smallspeed · Post by **smallspeed** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:42 pm

BMW 530d + a few 535d parts + remap = just under 650Nm (and around 270bhp)

a current model e60 535d plus a remap = 340bhp / 710Nm!! Much better to drive too as twin turbo with a much better torque spread

plan was to remap mine again this week while my mrs is away and reign things in a bit (aiming for around 550Nm and 260bhp with a bit more progressive delivery) as while its fun being literally catapulted down the road, its not particularly nice to drive around town or when the weathers c**p! unfortunately her car died monday morning so she took mine with her leaving me with a fiesta and a dead battery

will hopefully get done this weekend while she's out xmas shopping

smallspeed · Post by **smallspeed** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:44 pm

Project 911 wrote:Beeing from Finland I'm very used to snow driving. As said, winter tyres are must (by law they are required there Dec-Feb minimum). You really dont need spikes, just regular winter tyres will do, and they are pretty good nowadays even on dry tarmac, tyre technology has moved forward a lot. If you want really good winter tyres, you need to buy "scandinavion edition" tyres, many winter tyres are designed for central European mild conditions, but they should be fine for UK.

thanks for the info; i think for the weather we have here its probably ok to go for a central europe type tyre (like germany) as its mostly wet in the winter with some snow.. either that or i might try and find some of those ice racing tyres and hope to cause enough damage that the council HAS to do something about our shocking roads!!

b