911 2.7RS

[paulyb]

When I first bought mine the insurers (Zurich Private Clients) were happy to accept the bill of sale as proof of value for the first year, so I guess your scenario wouldn't necessarily arise in the first year.
After that you need to get a valuation from someone for the new year at each renewal. I guess the issue could arise that you bought a car for X and the following / a later year a valuer will only value it at 80% of X so you might feel somewhat hard done by! However on the upward spiral we've been on for sometime now I'd doubt that has arisen of late......but going forwards

[sladey]

Looking at it from a purely business point of view I'd say it's got to be able to go down - if they've had to revise valuations upwards (over the last few years) they must also take them the other way if this is what the market says it's worth. I can't see an insurance company 'recession-proofing' your investment.

They may stick with things for a year but if there is a sudden drop within the year I'd be surprised if they wouldn't argue this very strongly indeed. It would therefore be important to check the wording of the policy (e.g. giving them the option to change their mind in the event of sudden market fluctuation).

From my experiences with insurance companies it's what they would do - if they can wriggle out of a clause they will do - it's their money or yours.

[one-two]

A slightly different question would be what sort of premium do you pay for a 250K car that you actually use? My take on all this is that it's starting to look like an argument for a 2.4S - and, yes, I am conflicted! Four or five times the value of an RS and more acceptable than a replica. Having said that, I do like the idea and the execution of the orange 2.4S-based replica discussed earlier.

[sladey]

and fun in a facsimile?

The big difference to me with the reps is that it's NOT like a replica rolex, where inferior materials have been used. It's the SAME STUFF.

you can have two cars that came off the production line at the same time, an S and an RS. I'm talking about the later RS models here when they ran out of the lightweight glass and panels etc.

35 years later the things that made the RS different could have been replaced due to any number of problems (e.g. suspension, barrels etc)

So you could have two cars, made up of the same individual components - and I don't mean 'something similar' I mean the same. One is worth 50K, the other 200K. They look the same, drive the same (which is actually what gave them their value in the first place!), and after all this time, but for a serial number on the assembly line, they are the same.

You get to the point where two identical pieces of steel have a different value - not because one is better than the other but because of it's history. Now I can fully appreciate that - the value of history and provenance. It's just when the gap between the two gets to it's current size when it's starts to look ludicrous to me.

I've seen it on certain websites - literally a piece of metal I can get second hand for £300 is £3000 because it used to be on an RS.

I can fully see the premium being sought and achieved for 'the actual car that won this or that race' (though you then get into the proof of provenance thing). For the 'normal' RS's though, although I agree there should always be a premium, I fee the current level of premium is way too much and in such circumstances the chance of a 'correction' is not far away.

just my own opinion - there are far more knowledgeable people on this site, both in terms of model knowledge and market knowledge.

Cheers

Mark

p.s. and by the reps I'm NOT talking about my own car, which I'd never call a rep of anything - I'm talking about the ones that go to town to replicate a specific model

[hot66]

A slightly different question would be what sort of premium do you pay for a 250K car that you actually use? My take on all this is that it's starting to look like an argument for a 2.4S - and, yes, I am conflicted! Four or five times the value of an RS and more acceptable than a replica. Having said that, I do like the idea and the execution of the orange 2.4S-based replica discussed earlier.

we all know a 2.4S is the car to have .... 'purer' car , nice narrow body, narrow rear track with narrow rear wheels , a slighlty 'peakier' motor ( always nice to feel it come on cam ) with only a little bit less horsepower ( mine is 198 bhp ), no in your face graphics ... after all the RS was initally going to be a 2.7 S

Did someone mention biased ? Who me ? Never

[Roadrunner]

remember Steve, I might be completely wrong with my observations and to be honest we're playing being 'train spotters'. Spotting inaccuracies is a game some us play , not to slag a car off but to see who is the more knowledgable / saddest Mike ( 210bhp) is always 'sadder' than me

There is nothing wrong with this car at all and these stupid little details are of no consequence really. Looking at it from behind a computer screen is no way to judge a car. Personally I think it looks fantastic

I could count loads of 'incorrect' stuff on my 2.4S if I was being really anal , but it doesn't really matter.

What matters is you get a good car that you can have fun with. Its the problem cars you need to avoid. Remeber the enjoyment is as much about driving them as it is about the owning of them

Thanks James,

Partly my point is just that: Right now, I know just as much from behind this computer screen as I do looking at them in the flesh. I've seen a few now, and I wouldn't have spotted most of what I 'knew' was wrong. My enthusiasm way outranks my knowledge.

James said;

"What matters is you get a good car that you can have fun with."

I agree, and for that reason I have been looking intently at RS911's fun cars and wondering intently......That's the whole thing, where do we draw the line between having the 'real' thing and fun in a facsimile?

I have a strong desire to own a slice of history, that is correct in its details, but how correct is really necessary? I'm not sure yet, though I nearly am...and I really enjoy the trainspotting stuff.

You forget how much you know that I don't, it's a lot.


Cheers,


Steve.

Steve,

Which cars have you been to see, and what were the negative features that put you off purchasing ?

Tim

www.fluidimages.co.uk

[one-two]

... you can have two cars that came off the production line at the same time, an S and an RS ...

I think that's right. An S-based replica somehow seems more appropriate than a T- or E- based replica. It's a bit like a Touring that's been converted to Lightweight. It's never going to command the same price, but it's directly adjacent to it and in most practical respects it's the same.

[Spydermon]

When I first bought mine the insurers (Zurich Private Clients) were happy to accept the bill of sale as proof of value for the first year, so I guess your scenario wouldn't necessarily arise in the first year.
After that you need to get a valuation from someone for the new year at each renewal. I guess the issue could arise that you bought a car for X and the following / a later year a valuer will only value it at 80% of X so you might feel somewhat hard done by! However on the upward spiral we've been on for sometime now I'd doubt that has arisen of late......but going forwards

Thanks Paulyb,

Yes, I can see this being affected by where you bought the car on the market's curve, now seeming to be the wrong time to buy in terms of insurance. I'm not sure I'd see these cars as an investment, more of an OMG what do I have to pay now to get on of the bl**dy things!


Cheers,

Steve.

[Spydermon]

Looking at it from a purely business point of view I'd say it's got to be able to go down - if they've had to revise valuations upwards (over the last few years) they must also take them the other way if this is what the market says it's worth. I can't see an insurance company 'recession-proofing' your investment.

They may stick with things for a year but if there is a sudden drop within the year I'd be surprised if they wouldn't argue this very strongly indeed. It would therefore be important to check the wording of the policy (e.g. giving them the option to change their mind in the event of sudden market fluctuation).

From my experiences with insurance companies it's what they would do - if they can wriggle out of a clause they will do - it's their money or yours.

Thanks Mark,

I've been through this with insurance companies before, and I tend to agree with you, if they can get out of it, they will.

It feels to me that we are at a peak now, personally I can't see anyone paying any more towards 300k, but then I could be hideously wrong. Doesn't matter what your material worth, there must come a point where you feel uncomfortable forking it out. I'm at that point now I must admit, and I wouldn't pay 260k. I'm sure that initially they would be fine insuring your mega-purchase, but I can see them getting snotty when it drops....

Cheers,


Steve.

[Spydermon]

A slightly different question would be what sort of premium do you pay for a 250K car that you actually use? My take on all this is that it's starting to look like an argument for a 2.4S - and, yes, I am conflicted! Four or five times the value of an RS and more acceptable than a replica. Having said that, I do like the idea and the execution of the orange 2.4S-based replica discussed earlier.

I hear you one-two,

I also like the orange rep, but won't be heading in that direction for that particular car. However, it has inspired me in a certain direction. As was pointed out to me earlier, I could get a good RS Touring and that rep, and still have change from the LWT!


Steve.

[Spydermon]

A slightly different question would be what sort of premium do you pay for a 250K car that you actually use? My take on all this is that it's starting to look like an argument for a 2.4S - and, yes, I am conflicted! Four or five times the value of an RS and more acceptable than a replica. Having said that, I do like the idea and the execution of the orange 2.4S-based replica discussed earlier.

we all know a 2.4S is the car to have .... 'purer' car , nice narrow body, narrow rear track with narrow rear wheels , a slighlty 'peakier' motor ( always nice to feel it come on cam ) with only a little bit less horsepower ( mine is 198 bhp ), no in your face graphics ... after all the RS was initally going to be a 2.7 S

Did someone mention biased ? Who me ? Never

No question that the 2.4s looks fab, and yours especially James, am developing a fondness for that colour. But I do love that cheeky rump on the Rs, and the lairy graphics suit me too, that's why I like Tangerine!

198! How've you done that?


Steve.

[Paul64]

Freisingers offered me their (now) blue LWT for €250k last Autumn but it was beyond my reach for sure - I know I am happy with "0024" coming in the next few weeks and the price I paid having seen the way they are restoring it I think was fair considering the hours spent.
I think, even with the new panels on the car, there's still a huge amount of original steel left so will think of it as a rebuilt original rather than a 'new' reproduction...
For interest, I had a few quotes for insurance for mine, running from about 550GBP to 700. I chose Adrian Flux at just over 600.
They'll only insure it with a Thatcham 1 immobiliser fitted, as would most of the others. Agreed value is what I paid for it with annual adjustment as required.

Paul

[Spydermon]

remember Steve, I might be completely wrong with my observations and to be honest we're playing being 'train spotters'. Spotting inaccuracies is a game some us play , not to slag a car off but to see who is the more knowledgable / saddest Mike ( 210bhp) is always 'sadder' than me

There is nothing wrong with this car at all and these stupid little details are of no consequence really. Looking at it from behind a computer screen is no way to judge a car. Personally I think it looks fantastic

I could count loads of 'incorrect' stuff on my 2.4S if I was being really anal , but it doesn't really matter.

What matters is you get a good car that you can have fun with. Its the problem cars you need to avoid. Remeber the enjoyment is as much about driving them as it is about the owning of them

Thanks James,

Partly my point is just that: Right now, I know just as much from behind this computer screen as I do looking at them in the flesh. I've seen a few now, and I wouldn't have spotted most of what I 'knew' was wrong. My enthusiasm way outranks my knowledge.

James said;

"What matters is you get a good car that you can have fun with."

I agree, and for that reason I have been looking intently at RS911's fun cars and wondering intently......That's the whole thing, where do we draw the line between having the 'real' thing and fun in a facsimile?

I have a strong desire to own a slice of history, that is correct in its details, but how correct is really necessary? I'm not sure yet, though I nearly am...and I really enjoy the trainspotting stuff.

You forget how much you know that I don't, it's a lot.


Cheers,


Steve.

Steve,

Which cars have you been to see, and what were the negative features that put you off purchasing ?

Tim

www.fluidimages.co.uk

Hi Tim,

As I've said earlier I don't really like naming specific cars that I've seen, or sent someone to see, it's down to my personal choice. But, since you asked I'll run down the cars I'm not buying and have considered by their colours, not their locations.

1) A Gulf Blue RS Touring.
2) A Light Yellow RS Touring.
3) A White with Red RS Touring.
4) A white with Blue RS Touring.
5) A Black RS Touring.
6) A green RS Touring.

The reasons vary, but it's a lot to do with how I feel about colours and originality.

Cheers,


Steve.

[Spydermon]

and fun in a facsimile?

The big difference to me with the reps is that it's NOT like a replica rolex, where inferior materials have been used. It's the SAME STUFF.

you can have two cars that came off the production line at the same time, an S and an RS. I'm talking about the later RS models here when they ran out of the lightweight glass and panels etc.

35 years later the things that made the RS different could have been replaced due to any number of problems (e.g. suspension, barrels etc)

So you could have two cars, made up of the same individual components - and I don't mean 'something similar' I mean the same. One is worth 50K, the other 200K. They look the same, drive the same (which is actually what gave them their value in the first place!), and after all this time, but for a serial number on the assembly line, they are the same.

You get to the point where two identical pieces of steel have a different value - not because one is better than the other but because of it's history. Now I can fully appreciate that - the value of history and provenance. It's just when the gap between the two gets to it's current size when it's starts to look ludicrous to me.

I've seen it on certain websites - literally a piece of metal I can get second hand for £300 is £3000 because it used to be on an RS.

I can fully see the premium being sought and achieved for 'the actual car that won this or that race' (though you then get into the proof of provenance thing). For the 'normal' RS's though, although I agree there should always be a premium, I fee the current level of premium is way too much and in such circumstances the chance of a 'correction' is not far away.

just my own opinion - there are far more knowledgeable people on this site, both in terms of model knowledge and market knowledge.

Cheers

Mark

p.s. and by the reps I'm NOT talking about my own car, which I'd never call a rep of anything - I'm talking about the ones that go to town to replicate a specific model

Blimey Mark,

There's a lot of wisdom in this post, and I'm sorry that I haven't got the time to address all your points;

However, I totally agree with the gist of this, and I do agree that the RS is worth more than other models, but that premium has gone nuts, even in the short time I've been on here. Before I talked to you lot, I might have just gone for the Tangerine dream without thinking directly about the level of those premiums. I might even have consoled myself with the thought that the premium made my car very special. You've no idea how close I was to wazzing off to Sydney Very close indeed.

But, as a result of your salient points, and others too, I have started to look differently at the whole situation. I'm very glad that I do now, because I have realised that it does take effort to find the right vehicle. I am also seriously considering a 'rep'. Get off the floor Mark it's not that funny....!

Cheers,


Steve.

[Helen]

good grief your fussy, are you always this difficult to please ?



think Larry wishes i was more like you.. i'm more in the ........ if its got a porsche badge on it i'll buy it, camp.