Whats wrong with the world ? ?

goodtogo · Post by **goodtogo** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:38 pm

Here's a sorry tale.

Been looking for an original RHD early 911, posted on early 911s registry http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums ... -early-car

Saw a car coming up at a Coys of Kensington Automobiles auction (6th March). Went to have a look at car, talked to auctioneer several times before auction explaining That I was looking for an original car that I could love, fettlle, take my girls to church in when they get married. Auctioneer reassured me it was an abolutely genuine car. I notice from looking at details at the auction that the car has had a replacement gearbox and quizz him on this and why that is not mentioned in the catalogue, I say I intend to try and track down the original gearbox with a view to reinstalling it to make the car 100% original, he says ''fair play''

Purchased car at auction, (same auctioneer conducted the auction itself, him being a partner in Coys) Vin # 11810683 Paint code # 68-6804-G engine # 3080507 901/06 14324

Having paid for car and on picking it up from the auction, auctioneer then tells me that the registered keeper of the car up to when I bought it at the auction..... was...... his wife !

Get car home, and do a bit more digging in to it's history http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... =2&t=37875 .

Turns out the car has a 915 transmission http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche- ... rsion.html
and it seems that originally it was very likely to have been a sportomatic, converted by the auctioneer himself 12 years ago http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight= Phoned the auctioneer and told him I thought that he/his wife/or Coys had misrepresented the car in its catalogue http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?itemI ... ctionID=20 and to me personally, he says........ ''so sue me''

Now looks like even the engine may not be genuine to the car http://elferhelfer.de/fzident/fzident68.htm

Have applied for COA

What next ps (What is WRONG with people now days?)

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:01 pm

Looks a cracking car though and a 915 box is a nice upgrade over a sporto.

Probably not what you want to hear but the chassis number is there on the ad to do all the research on. Just goes to show that whether your Arfa Daily or Tarquin at Auction House they're all a bit dodgy underneath.

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:02 pm

Sad story but always take advice. Plenty on here and there are not many rhd cars that Ddk does not know about.

I know you have been keen to buy. I pm'ed you about my car which has cast iron provenance.

To be fair most of the facts above are easily checked before buying.

Regards
Mike

cubist · Post by **cubist** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:46 pm

Sue him...

Nice car though. Particularly attractive in baby blue...

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:09 pm

Yes , its a pity you did not enlist someone like Nick Moss ( early 911 ) to help you , would have saved some pain. However if the car is not what you want it might be more straightforward to sell it on than to sue , unless of course you are a lawyer......

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:03 pm

I think it looks a cracker, use it for a while and sell it on if you can't come to terms with the non originality. Provided you didn't pay over the odds then I doubt you'll lose anything.

davep · Post by **davep** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:08 pm

The engine is not for a sporto.
The original paint code is light ivory, not blue (period correct? in ad).
So, not original paint, not original transmission, possibly not original engine = not very original.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:51 pm

Very little in the interior is factory spec either.

But as Nige says if you have lost the love for the car and assuming you paid somewhere between the guides and it's a sound little thing you should be able to get that sort of money again. Either try to agree a deal with the auctioneer to put it back through at a decent commission or sell it through a reputable dealer in these cars (if such a thing exists) and you should be able to walk away without too much / any pain.

goodtogo · Post by **goodtogo** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:09 pm

Thanks for views chaps.

Mike, I did pm you re your cars - perhaps you didn't receive it

Sam, would Paul Stephens ltd be interested in the car ?

Thanks

Tim

964RS · Post by **964RS** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:16 pm

Duped by an auctioneer? Whatever next

Sadly I find they are worse that Arfur Daly in that they mostly haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

At the £31k it's not a very original car...but it does look very nice!

Not sure how much of a case you have to sue - especially as you are admitting to having seen the car prior to auction and having all relevant details presented to you so you could do your homework firs?

It's a shame to have a bitter taste after such a big purchase though

You seem to have bought a car very quickly from starting to look for one...patience sadly is normally the name of the game when it comes to classics.

Bruce M · Post by **Bruce M** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:11 pm

I think in all honesty, you can't call foul with the catalogue description. All the usual chat is missing. It doesn't mention:
Matching numbers
Original engine
Original specification
Correct details / spec
Correct original colour

It does mention "restored" & "retrimmed". Also "period correct colour" is a minor red flag.

These guys don't usually miss a trick and know these details add significant value. There not going to "forget" to mention if it's matching numbers.

However, as above it looks nice. Has interesting history (owned by a Coys partner for many years

) and in very usable condition (updated gearbox to a more robust 915?), so should be sellable.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

squirdan · Post by **squirdan** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:32 pm

confirms the not uncommon view that Coys are rubbish

adverts are always made up, light on facts, with spurious historical flannel as opposed to anything useful about the specific car

and then theres the episode from a few years back when they went bust, kept all the money they owed vendors and then popped back up again (a "pre-pack" administration or smthg similar) as Coys of Kensington...the latter two words to all intents and purposes the only difference

am no expert but in the main the cars I see listed at auction are ones dealers have tried and failed to sell, or cars with something odd about them

Barwaut · Post by **Barwaut** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:59 pm

goodtogo wrote:(What is WRONG with people now days?)

They all want a classic Porsche, without knowing their stuff...

yoda · Post by **yoda** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:54 pm

Barwaut wrote:They all want a classic Porsche, without knowing their stuff...

That is a bit of a harsh view. While I think any buyer can help themselves by doing their home work and getting an inspection done, it is a shame that sellers aren't honest about these things and it certainly takes the shine off what should be a great moment for a car enthusiast.

It is good to see people offering sensible advice, less good to see people being elitist.

Regards

goodtogo · Post by **goodtogo** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:26 pm

I think in a wider sense that its possibly a sad reflection on present mankind and the society he has 'created' that the presumption is that it is 'normal' and 'expected' that his fellow men will try and rip him off, be this classic car ownership, politics, the financial markets, industry etc etc.

Dog eat dog, trust no one, protect yourself at all times.

Like I said in the post, its just a sad and disspiriting thing if this is the accepted norm and is what mankind has graduated to.

DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker